To move abroad to have a baby?

[leastlittletouchofspleen]

It's probably madness, but here goes.

I am single. I have always wanted to be a parent but that elusive One keeps evading me.

My parents are dead. My mother died when I was 16 (cancer) and my dad died 3 years ago (heart attack

I have NO support, therefore, and that's the thing I keep hearing.

I have very good friends but the ones I know I could rely on for support if shit really did come to shite are abroad. They have been pressurising me mercilessly suggesting I also move.

Pros - it's a beautiful place, cheap to live, very friendly, my friends
Cons - my home is here, my job is here (opportunities for my line of work are few and far between there: I can do something related ish but not as much money.)

Any thoughts?

Cory, I really have. Thank you :) I am worried about being outed here but I can ASSURE everyone I am staying pretty close to home, shall we say

leastlittletouchofspleen Sat 04-Mar-17 16:05:36

"I suppose to draw a comparison - I service my car as it's a possibility it could be involved in an accident and harm me or others, but I don't assume I'll be in an accident as that might stop me driving."

Exactly. So the equivalent here would be making a list of the things you need to have in place: right of residency, baby's citizenship, right to medical care (especially ante-natal), right to education if you decide to stay + an estimate of whether any of those things are likely to be affected by Brexit. In other words, the full MOT of this plan.

Absolutely, Cory, and that's what I intend to do, should I decide to move.

OP if you didn't want to leave the UK and your well paid job straight away... would it be possible to start doing a serious reccie in said country, whilst starting the ball rolling here? Assuming all goes well and you can conceive/carry ok, then have the baby here to accrue decent maternity and maybe live there during the maternity leave period? It might be a good two years from now before you are even holding your baby. It means you can decide which country is best once you know a bit more? Or at least start parental life with a bit more of a financial boost. If you have a good income then hire a doula for pregnancy and post birth plus a night nanny a few nights a week to give you sleep.

Also as soon as baby is born then sign friends as legal guardians and create legal financial trusts for your child inc mortgage and life insurance.

If you want to make sure those friends abroad really are up for being your family effectively, then ask them. And ask them if they would be legal guardians. That will give you a good idea of how serious they are.

I think though, if you want a baby (and by you I mean anyone really), have to be convinced in yourself that you could do it solo. I think frankly all mothers need to ask themselves this as you have absolutely no idea what can happen in life- who will leave you/find someone else/shuffle off this mortal coil.

Money gets you a long way with 24/7 baby sitters even in emergencies, and help in general. I definitely wouldn't give that up now.

If being a mother is something you really want then go for it, but go for it solo and anything else is a bonus rather than a necessity. Which I think is what you are doing anyway, it's just having that support. No one would be questioning this half as much if you were postulating becoming a mother and moving to a country that your cousins lived in to be near help. Blood isn't always thicker than water, I totally get that. I have a pretty lovely family, but the truth is I rely on friends far more, and friends are our children's legal guardians, they will have sole custody of our three children and their assets if DH and I kick the bucket.

I think you sound fab, and I wished more people would think through becoming a parent as much as you did!

Keep us posted

But leastlittletouchofspleen it's not about being a touch sharp. It's about the fact that you posted that you've been met with "suspicion" and you're going to be the "odd one out". It's all bullshit, no one has given you a hard time on this thread.

You posted a thread that had nothing to do with the title. People literally had no idea what you were actually asking. You hesitated in saying you wanted to use a sperm donor because you said you didn't want to be judged (fact). No one cares.

People asked about the sperm donor because you could have said "I want to adopt" or "the father is a friend and he lives in the UK and we are having a baby platonicallly". All those things would have changed the answer. You assumed it was some weird crude power play for no reason.

I didn't write my comment to attack you but it's pretty clear that you read everything as a personal attack. Another great example: the issue of the risk of a catastrophic accident/death. The answer is to get robust disability/life insurance and put your friends explicitly in your will. Also to maybe build up savings just in case. Maybe even to shift your work into something that you can do remotely or build up a second stream of passive income. The time to do that is right now. You could put a plan in place right now to completely neutralize those issues even if the worst happened. That's why people are asking.

They are raising good questions to confirm what resources you have and what plans you have in place. Then, if possible, to come up with better solutions. but you reject the questions because you think this is some sort of referendum on how good a person you are rather than a completely reasonable financial planning question.

Oh, and another great example: people asking how much involvement you can expect from your friends in the new country. If you'd just responded: "they know about the sperm donor plan and are absolutely on board. They are willing to be godparents and they've consented to be in the will", people would have been saying "brilliant! go or it!" but instead you take it as a weird attack on how well you know your friends. Oh, maybe they'll be shit like my dad but i don't think so!. Like wtf has any of this got to do with adult financial planning?

Friendships change. I have seen a few 20+ relationships go down the drain. Also they could move. I'm sure you aren't as ugly as you believe. You would be better off working on your self -esteem issues and try and find a wonderful man who could become your life partner. I seriously wouldn't rely on a friendship.

Apple

You claim people haven't given me a hard time on the thread and that's 'bullshit.' I am afraid I have had to justify how I am having a child, which I doubt you have to.

It isn't relevant. I hesitated in saying I wanted to use a sperm donor, not so much because of judgement (this is AIBU!) but because as I tried to explain on page 2, the thread then quickly turns into the rights and wrongs of sperm donation from unhelpful posters and the hows and whys from helpful posters - but I know the hows and whys. It's just not relevant. It's like someone saying 'I'm three months pregnant and by the way we shagged with me on top and anyway, I'm pregnant, and ...'

There are posters on here who have had IVF, IUI, whether because of fertility issues or because of needing donor eggs/sperm like me and sometimes that's totally relevant, other times it isn't. Whether I wanted to adopt, or had a friend abroad to 'help' didn't matter. It wasn't the subject of the thread.

I think you did write that comment if not to attack, to try and make me feel bad.

Sometimes it helps just to thrash something out. If something is not remotely relevant, saying so doesn't make you defensive.

Apple, financial planning isn't really what the thread is about, is it?

What is it about ,then?

If I had to go into hospital and my dh was away, my first call would be to my friend I met because our babies are the same age. So you may get your local support network through having a baby.

Some very succinct posts there Apple

Far more eloquently put than I could have managed, which is why I gave up.

Oh, dear! It's about whether moving abroad for some of the potential benefits (friendships and support) outweigh some drawbacks!

Now, at the risk of more accusations about my 'defensiveness' - financially I am stable. My parents left me money (by the way, Apple, my dad wasn't "shit" but he was very lonely and prioritised relationships over his children, which statistically many widowed men do - look at the number of children who go into care following the death of the mother compared to the death of the father) and I invested it. I also am trained in something which never goes out of style, to paraphrase Taylor Swift and I have a (very small!) business I can always generate a (small!) income from.

But at any rate - it's mostly about thrashing stuff out.

To be fair Worra, your 'where is the sperm coming from' was certainly succinct.

Having had a little search I have the impression Apple disapproves of single parents generally.

If you really do have all the issues Cory mentioned in hand, then why be so vague about them? Why not lay it all out in the very first post, or at least answer questions? (And saying 'it's fine' isn't an answer - it's a brush-off)

It doesn't matter at all if a foreign country's friendly, cheap or beautiful, or how many friends you have there - the legalities of getting there, staying there, and what services you're entitled to (medical and, later, education) are the most crucial aspects of emigrating as a parent.

Financial planning is very important if you are going to be bringing up this baby alone. It's another aspect you will need to think carefully through.

It's not intended as a brush off, but given I don't want to detail exactly where I want to move to I have to be vague.

Thread is getting a bit circular now, though, so thanks for your thoughts, even the critical ones. Sometimes, it isn't about falling on one post or person and saying 'that's all the answers, right there' but working it out in your own head. I'm not making any quick decisions - even if I was prone to making quick decisions (I'm not!) I couldn't due to work logistics and so on. Thanks again :)

Would you be financially stable abroad OP? That's the bit I don't think I've understood from your posts so far. "reduced career opportunities" covers quite a big spectrum and I can't work out if its job satisfaction you'd miss (for which there might be compensating benefits abroad and with a child) or whether you'd be on the brink financially, which I think could make for a hard life as a single parent.

Depends entirely on the specifics, surely?

Based on what you've said about climate, speaking the language and the complete lack of concern about visas or Brexit, I think I can hazard a guess where you're thinking of.

In your shoes, I'd still be researching the legalities. Things like the situation for babies conceived via sperm etc, whether your baby would be a citizen by birth etc. There is a safety net in that particular country, but it's not quite the same as ours. So you would need to think about what your plans would be in the event of any shit hitting any fans. I would also want to know exactly what you mean by reduced career opportunities, and would consider the possibility that the UK might not be the only economy negatively impacted by Brexit.

Was there enough money left to buy or put a down payment on a property?

There would be Eurus but I think I'm best off renting initially because I might hate it!

Yes, true.

TBH if it's where I think it is, and you'd have no housing costs, I can see that you might well be better having a baby there than here. I'd just insure myself up the wazoo. Although that's without having heard what you mean about reduced career opportunities.

Just that the jobs in the field I am trained in aren't very plentiful there.

There are jobs in a related field (that I've done before and is hugely enjoyable!) but doesn't pay as well :)

Ok I think I've worked it out too. That's a completely different prospect from what you set out in your op. There's no reason why you couldn't build a support network there, to complement your existing friends. I can't really visualise why your job should be so different either. Is there any way of transferring your qualifications?

My qualification is relevant, just not many jobs.