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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To move abroad to have a baby?

197 replies

leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 12:39

It's probably madness, but here goes.

I am single. I have always wanted to be a parent but that elusive One keeps evading me.

My parents are dead. My mother died when I was 16 (cancer) and my dad died 3 years ago (heart attack Sad

I have NO support, therefore, and that's the thing I keep hearing.

I have very good friends but the ones I know I could rely on for support if shit really did come to shite are abroad. They have been pressurising me mercilessly suggesting I also move.

Pros - it's a beautiful place, cheap to live, very friendly, my friends Gin
Cons - my home is here, my job is here (opportunities for my line of work are few and far between there: I can do something related ish but not as much money.)

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
Original poster
leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 14:01

But flogging, they wouldn't really. FWIW, yes, they've been very supportive from the start.

I'm not sure I would Mummy but thanks Grin (I can be a knob but it doesn't stop me making friends, usually. Just that my friends mostly have parents, sisters, in laws. I don't think they really 'get' the 'I have no one!' thing.)

OP posts:
NinonDeLanclos · 04/03/2017 14:02

One consideration if it's an EU country is what will happen to UK citizens' rights post-Brexit. Long term you will be subject to that country's immigration rules once FOM ends. And the UK government may not guarantee that healthcare will continue to be reimbursed by the NHS abroad. Could you afford private healthcare if the current system was ditched? Equally, there are some professions where the right to practice may not be recognised if a deal is not reached.

ARumWithAView · 04/03/2017 14:04

If you have plenty of long-term friends here, but not a single one would take care of your baby for a few days if you were hospitalised (meaning your child had to be fostered), then either you have a low view of your friends or they're stunningly selfish people. I also agree with others who've said you often build support groups after becoming a parent, but you do have to make an effort and get past any distaste you might have for NCT, baby groups etc.

Caring for your child in case of longer-term illness or death is something different. That's a huge responsibility for anyone to take on (whether friends or family). Be wary of casting your friends here as the feckless ones, and idealising your overseas friends as the ones who can be counted on no matter what. For one thing, it's very easy to promise unlimited support when you're far off - you get a nice warm feeling, and you don't have to worry about the person in question turning up ten minutes later. I don't think it's a conscious intent to mislead; it's just easier to be the nice guy from a long distance.

Floggingmolly · 04/03/2017 14:09

But if their support is being factored into the decision making process in the first place, op, then you'd better believe their (potential) role is several rungs higher than disinterested bystander...
It must be really easy to offer not needed support from such a distance.
Let's just hope the reality doesn't disappoint.

Original poster
leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 14:20

Rum, not really. This thread is just showing to me really how little people understand. I don't mean that awfully, but I think it's so easy to trill 'oh yes, friends will help ...' but they won't. Not because they are horrible, awful people, but because they have children and jobs, husbands and parents, houses and pets, to sort.

It's a bit like being a foster parent - I bet loads of us would LIKE to do it but practically might not be able to.

OP posts:
Original poster
leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 14:20

Like I say flogging if it subsequently isn't there I have lost nothing.

OP posts:
TENSHI · 04/03/2017 14:23

You wonder whether it is madness?

It sounds selfish at best.

Before you decide try and see it from the angle of any potential child first. Their thoughts and feelings. Is it in their interest to have stability, a secure home and a secure network of support should anything happen to you as most people bringing a child into the world want the very best for that child.

Many dc go through angst if they discover they don't have a dad and they want one. It can lead to issues with identity.

You are flaky about what job you would do in this new country. That doesn't bode well does it? Because by working you wouldn't be able to take your baby with you unless you lived in a country where you can strap a baby on your back and carry on.

Even women in developing countries have a strong network of support to rely on, perhaps you could join that kind of community?

As they say, it takes a village to bring up a child.

Why don't you start off with a pet to look after as you seem completely naiive to the 24/7 demands a small human requires, not just physically , but emotionally too.

Original poster
leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 14:25

Ten, all I do is see it from the point of view of the child.

You're probably right that it's not ideal. Obviously I wish I could offer them a dad (although I'm not convinced he'd help if I died) and grandparents (and I can't bring anyone back from the dead and even if I could I'm not sure my parents would be that much help - they had Planz for retirement!) but maybe I do have a few other things.

I'll always be able to earn enough for shelter, food and clothing.

Is that enough? Maybe not - except maybe. I don't know. All I do know is it's a decision I have to reach myself.

OP posts:
Original poster
leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 14:26

By the way - I do have pets, but would you give up your children for a cat? Would you?

OP posts:
Beelands · 04/03/2017 14:27

Well you have because you've uprooted your whole life here, jacked in your job and lost your entitlement to benefits potentially.

It's too much pressure to put on one friendship. If you're thinking of moving there anyway that's one thing but if you're moving there so they can help you have a baby.... then no. It's a bit weird.

The other thing about the UK is that we do have a pretty robust, if imperfect, social support system around new parenthood. Antenatal classes, visiting community midwives and health visitors, children's centres, playgroups etc. It's built in. It may be where you are going also but look into it x

Lostwithinthehills · 04/03/2017 14:30

I do understand to a certain extent. I have no family within a few hundred miles. I also have no friends. The group of friends I made when my DD was a baby ghosted me out a couple of years ago and the fabled group of school gate friends hasn't materialised for me. I do have a dh but that's it.

Original poster
leastlittletouchofspleen · 04/03/2017 14:31

I am not entitled to benefits in the UK.

My job here is one I can pick up and come back to.

It's so hard to explain but as a PP said, it's similar to someone moving closer to family. Just that I don't share genetics with them :)

OP posts:
corythatwas · 04/03/2017 14:35

Ime having a baby is the ideal time for making friends with exactly the kind of people who would be capable of stepping in in an emergency- because they know you would reciprocate in any emergency of yours. Mothers' groups, baby-sitting circles- there must be something available in your area, and many people make lifelong friends that way.

But moving abroad, with all that entails of navigating in a new country, simply in the expectation that your friends will feel obliged to step in when you need them, seems to be laying an awful lot on your friends. What if it turns out to be more than they'd bargained for?

Would you really be happier about a potential child of yours (if the worst comes to the worst) going into temporary foster care in a foreign country?

These are some questions you should consider:

Will you have the rights of more than emergency medical care etc in that other country?

Will your child have any rights there?

Is it likely to be affected by Brexit?

How long would you be staying away? Do you want your child to grow up in that other country? If not, what will you do when the child is older, might still need someone to look after them but you haven't made any friends in the UK?

If your child is born abroad, will they still have the right to full British citizenship?

If not, what happens if the immigration situation hardens and you are deported from the other country?

minipie · 04/03/2017 14:36

I certainly would suggest you live in the other country for at least 6-12 months before you TTC. I wouldn't want to be dealing with a new baby, on my own, in a new and unfamiliar country. Sounds like hell, even with my bestest friends in the same country.

How near would you be able to live to your close friends? Around the corner? Do they all live close together or are they scattered? And do they have DC?

Floggingmolly · 04/03/2017 14:37

What exactly do you mean when you say if there was a Dad on the scene you're not convinced he'd help if you died??!
Yet, you assume friends with their own families and no particular skin in the game would take in any child of yours as their own without a second thought...

Your thought processes are fascinatingly bizarre.

corythatwas · 04/03/2017 14:38

The citizenship is one to consider carefully. When I was pregnant, my DM wanted me to come home and give birth in my home country, as it has a far better record of maternal and infant survival than the UK. I had to point out very forcefully:

a) that you can't just roll up in a country where you are not resident and claim other than emergency medical care

b) that despite having a British father, children not born in this country would not have full British citizenship, and as we intended to live in the UK this was not acceptable to me- check if those rules are still the same

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/03/2017 14:39

Worra I think its you that comes across very badly on here not the OP.

OP as long as you can afford it and have thought it through then I would go for it.

Please dont underestimate how hard being a lone parent is but I can certainly understand the desire to move closer to your good friends. I'm not sure many people truly appreciate what its like to be without family.

corythatwas · 04/03/2017 14:40

I do appreciate what it's like to be far from your family- but I also know what it is like to give birth and look after a baby in a foreign country. And I would say there are lots of factors to consider.

TENSHI · 04/03/2017 14:46

Are you robust emotionally op? Could you cope with being something like a relief foster carer one weekend a month to start you off for example?

You had a difficult homelife and relationship with your father following your mother's death. Are there any issues you might have that you want to explore?

Would you be interested in being a foster mum to a vulnerable girl and their baby? They would require their own room in your home and you help out and monitor them. Fostering agencies are always looking for women like you who might be able to offer support to a young mum who has no support network of her own.

I just feel you have an unexplored maternal drive and having these kind of experiences might help you find out what is best for you Flowers

ThisThingCalledLove · 04/03/2017 14:57

I don't understand the logic of you moving closer on the grounds you will need friends for support e.g. you have no one to look after potential dc if you go into hospital yet asserting that you will always be able to earn a living without resorting to benefits (surely this would be the case if you were ill or had an extended hospital stay)? If you have a big amount of capital which is what you seem to be hinting, wouldn't you just buy in any support you need anyway e.g. an au pair, emergency nanny care etc? It would certainly be more reliable and fairer than relying on mates.

You sound exactly like the OP the other day who posted to get people's thoughts on having a potential baby in a one bed flat (who also drip fed stuff which was very relevant e.g. Income and housing situations). Both of these threads started off fairly vague and almost as though you were looking for a fight when people asked for info to advise you better.

And PMing people instead of keeping it on thread is a bit weird too.

It's all a bit weird to me, frankly.

corythatwas · 04/03/2017 14:57

"I'll always be able to earn enough for shelter, food and clothing."

Quite frankly, you don't know this. You could end up crippled in an accident or through something going wrong with the birth, your baby could be born with serious special needs requiring you to become a fulltime carer- that is a risk we all take when having children.

Which is why it is essential that you should sit down and find out all you can about what your position would be in that other country if the worst came to the worst. What rights would you have, what rights would your child have.

Also, find out as much as you can about the actual process of childbirth and maternity care in the country in question.

ThisThingCalledLove · 04/03/2017 14:58

And before you get your knickers in a twist, i honestly don't care or judge how you conceive, if it's legal and you're informed this is completely up to you! I also think babies are fine in a one bed flat Grin

longestlurkerever · 04/03/2017 15:08

I don't think anyone is saying that you can't get support from friends. At least that's not what I'm saying. Just that if to get that support you have to turn your life upside down, change jobs, move to a country where you don't speak the language, then it's a big gamble. Bigger, potentially, than staying put and trying to build a new support network. I'd say the same if it was your sister you were thinking of moving near, or your parents, if they now lives somewhere you have never lived and can't work. If you fancy living there anyway and think you could have a good life there, that's different.

corythatwas · 04/03/2017 15:13

What longestlurker said. And would add that while friends and family may well be equal in the support stakes, there are cases where you may need support from wider society- and that is the bit which may be getting more difficult in the current political climate.

Oysterbabe · 04/03/2017 15:16

How old are you?