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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this is another new evil low of the tories

212 replies

seagazer · 04/03/2017 10:38

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/housing-benefit-young-people-18-21-scrapped-universal-credit-exemptions-a7610581.html
But on the other hand corporation tax is being lowered. Angry

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 05/03/2017 18:00

Graphista Your post of 5.12 I remember all that happening around here back in the 90s.
Young people being paid a pittance.

HelenaDove · 05/03/2017 18:02

Becca Im very sorry to hear about your friend and the horrific way she was treated. Thanks

diaimchlo · 05/03/2017 18:10

CallingGloria

Sorry to tell you there are not enough charities to help the homeless and vulnerable because this inhumane government have:

  1. put so many cuts to services and benefits.
  2. given companies free reign with free labour (workfare)
  3. not enough social housing being built ...............

I could go on.........

These are the type of policies that have caused a massive rise in homelessness and now this new policy is going to add to that number and to top it off they have given themselves another pay rise Angry

makeourfuture · 05/03/2017 18:30

"What is Toryism but organised spivvery?"

  • A. Bevan
CallingGloria · 05/03/2017 18:46

Meadow I work in the NHS......ditto

HelenaDove · 05/03/2017 19:19

You work in the NHS and you agree with this policy?

Graphista · 05/03/2017 22:17

Please god you're not a health care professional with that attitude!

A charities really SHOULDN'T be needed in a wealthy country in the first place for something as basic as a roof over people's heads!

B charities themselves have been victimised by cuts and changes to tax exemptions.

C the policies have INCREASED the pressure on charities because there are now MORE vulnerable people

D because the people who are more likely to donate to charities (NOT the wealthy) can't afford to donation levels have dropped.

E there AREN'T jobs/training opportunities for ANYONE especially the young. Lack of investment in business and industry, no incentives for employers to create jobs, cuts to education and training services. My local small town is dying on its arse! It's lost over 2000 jobs in the last year alone, the college has lost 1/3 of classes/tutors. Over half the high street shops are boarded up!

F why should 18-21 yr olds be treated ANY differently to any other adult? They have the right the same as anyone over 21 to live independantly, seek work, have a life for crying out loud!

As an aside I was looking up earlier, officially homeless people can vote BUT they have to prove their identity and link to the area - if you're homeless how you supposed to find money for ID? Yes a few will have passports etc from before they became homeless but the rules do make it difficult plus they're already fighting a battle just getting through each day!

Young people don't vote I think because there is NOBODY who understands/represents them? The last time I can remember a political party appealing to younger voters was lib dems for the 2010 election and they then stabbed those voters in the back! That's a pretty good reason not to vote!

HelenaDove · 05/03/2017 23:09

And why on earth should charities provide employment and training Gloria.
Employers should be doing this. My dad was in construction from the 1950s through to the early 90s. He was given proper on the job training BY THE EMPLOYER. And paid properly. And i dont mean something like YTS or New Deal. i mean proper training.
Nowadays the employers seem to expect young people to come to them already trained. And then have the temerity to call the youngsters lazy.
My dad is nearly 81 and is absolutely astounded by this. And with these cuts to HB what happens to The Foyer type places. The flats/bedsits for 16 to 25 year olds.

feckitt · 05/03/2017 23:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HelenaDove · 05/03/2017 23:13

"My local small town is dying on its arse! It's lost over 2000 jobs in the last year alone, the college has lost 1/3 of classes/tutors. Over half the high street shops are boarded up."

VERY similar here Graphista.

Astro55 · 05/03/2017 23:21

We have a local charity that 'employs' the disabled - they arrive via bus at 10 and work for a few hours - lunch is provided and then back to work til 4 - what they make is Sold - they receive pocket money

All good

Charities shouldn't be used to fund training for able bodied youngsters for real jobs

However there i a al need for some of these youngsters to be trained in how to look afte r themselves - wash clothes cook a meal - manage money - why school can't identify those at high risk? Why bother to sit GCSE's and fail when they could be put forward for some sort of life training instead?

Graphista · 06/03/2017 00:26

Helena sadly true of too many towns in U.K. I think.

Astro - why is 'pocket money' all good? Why should the disabled be paid less?

Becca19962014 · 06/03/2017 00:32

astro under universal credit they will be subject to workfare, same as those on JSA. The tories are currently trying (again) to stop the exemption for those in ESA support group from being subject to workfare and sanction for not looking for work. They've succeeded in workfare being mandetory for those not in support group, and, workfare for the disabled is not time limited unlike JSA where it cannot be for longer than four weeks.

"Work" under universal credit, means forty hours a week. Everyone claiming, even in work, must attend jobcentre.

Becca19962014 · 06/03/2017 00:33

Some colleges do courses in living skills but they aren't funded anymore.

HelenaDove · 06/03/2017 00:45

Astro your post reeks of disabilism Disgusting.

CallingGloria · 06/03/2017 07:13

Helena if you were responding to me, I didn't say charities PROVIDE training and employment , I said help ACCESS training and employment.

Astro55 · 06/03/2017 07:20

I was thinking of two schemes I know of - one is for those with learning difficulties - they live in assisted housing and need 24 hour care - I think it's a good idea for them to contribute when many schemes don't let them work at all.

The other scheme teaches the disabled skills in the work force the aim being for them to become independent- it's a good idea when many work places won't allow the disabled insurance to work or give them the additional time needed to learn.

The young homeless lad I know has been given a room with no cooking facilities - not that he can cook - there's nobody to get him up for college so he doesn't go - his benefits will cease and he'll be homeless - or sofa surfing - it's a waste of a young life. What he needs is care - and a few good meals. His money goes on takeaways when he can afford them. Otherwise he just starves.

That is just dumping them as rubbish - it's not his fault his parents didn't teach him.

TakeThatFuckingDressOffNow · 06/03/2017 07:20

Disgusting - they just have no idea what life is like for people outside of their own grammar / fee paying school sheltered upbringing. Where everyone is the same - they can't imagine people not having parents they can stay with. I don't know what to do about it though. (Apart from never, ever, ever vote Tory)

CallingGloria · 06/03/2017 07:31

But TakeThatFuckingDressOffNow how is just giving benefits going to break this cycle?

Astro55 · 06/03/2017 07:41

To break the cycle you need more work opportunities- look at all the businesses closing down - all jobs gone - all workers now in benefits.

Look at single mothers (Tory hate) they need jobs that fit round the schools - not full time child care paying jobs - when they are mum and dad and chief cook at bottle washer!

Housing is at a premium - where are the house building schemes?

Graphista · 06/03/2017 07:44

Nobody has said 'just give benefits'.

I haven't worked for 8 years due to ill health - the cuts to the nhs have definitely contributed to that, I do believe if I'd had the correct treatment early on and support I'd be working now.

Even if you say charities 'help access' Training etc bit bloody hopeless if the training, education and jobs DON'T EXIST!

Regarding businesses employing disabled people, by law businesses of certain sizes are supposed to be able to demonstrate they employ equally and that includes people with learning disabilities. I've worked with people with learning disabilities and in every case they were among the most reliable, conscientious and productive people I've ever worked with. One guy was so good at his job when he was going to leave due to public transport issues the boss decided to pay for taxis for him.

What you're describing astro frankly sounds half a step away from a workhouse! Work 8 hours a day get board and bed in return? Why on earth (and you haven't answers since I first asked) should they not get at least min wage? Same as every other adult? My knowledge of these 'schemes' (excellent word for them) is they are a con! It's cheap labour.

Astro55 · 06/03/2017 07:47

These are people with sever learning disabilities- yes they get. Ed bored and transport - plus all meals and medical care 24 hours a day -

Minimum wage wouldn't cover their bills or housing needs let alone 34 hours care -

Ifailed · 06/03/2017 07:48

there are charities to help people get into training and employment, and there are homeless shelters and charities to provide accommodation.

Rubbish. Instead of getting your information from the likes of the daily mail, try talking to people who deal with homeless people to find out the truth.

TimeforANewTwatName · 06/03/2017 07:54

I'll just leave this here....

It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin

Douglas Adams, hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

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