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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Huge, massive row with Dsis and her arsehole husband...

275 replies

Flypaperforarseholes · 02/03/2017 23:16

Popped round to see my Dsis and niece this evening. We were having a nice evening, myself and dsis shared a bottle of wine while I trimmed my nieces hair. Niece was chatty and happy. I finished the trim just before Dsis' husband arrived home. Niece immediately fell quiet and rushed out to the utility room to get the hoover to clean up the hair. BIL came into the kitchen where we were just as niece came through with the hoover. BIL didn't greet any of us, looked at the hair on the floor and started shouting about "all this fucking mess!" The house is spotless, just a handful of trimmed hair on the floor. I said "sorry, my fault, pass the hoover Niece". BIL said "it's her hair, she'll clean it up." Then shouted at niece "Move it, you messy fat bitch!"Angry

I was, still am, fucking incensed. How dare he speak to her like that?! She's a lovely, kind, funny, beautiful girl.
He stepped towards my niece and as he is a big bloke (6' 3"), I felt it was physically intimidating. I stepped between them and told him to step back and asked him.who the fuck he thought he was to talk to her like that. He told me to fuck off, I'm her father, this is my house, I pay the fucking bills...Dsis told my niece to go to her room, which she did, crying.
All the while BIL is shouting about me sticking my nose in where it's not wanted, calling me a stupid bitch. He then told Dsis to get me out of 'his" house or he would "throw it (me) through the window".
I was raging and told him he could give it a try but he'd get more than he bargained for if he tried. Dsis told me to get out of the house. I know she may not have had a lot of options but it still fucking hurt.
I left, BIL and myself still shouting at each other.
Now I am worried about my Dsis and niece. I have never particularly liked my BIL but have never seen this side of him before (although I don't see him often) and my Dsis and niece have never mentioned anything like this and seem generally happy. I sentered my Dsis a text on my way home asking if she's ok, she didn't reply. I called her and she didn't answer. Called niece but her mobile is going to answering machine. AIBU to go back round there to check they're ok?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 04/03/2017 09:06

You can't record phone calls without the permission of the other party.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 04/03/2017 09:21

If you said clearly that the call was being recorded surely that would be enough? If I phone a company they say the call may be recorded for training purposes, they don't ask my permission.

Fly, you've been amazing for your Dsis and niece.

pinkyredrose · 04/03/2017 09:25

math I don't believe it's illegal to have a call recorder on your own phone. What you use the recordings for may be illegal depending what you do but in the case of recording abuse it's ok.

Originalfoogirl · 04/03/2017 09:29

And still no call to the police? He threatens you, is displaying clear signs of co-ercive control to his wife, is doing the same to his daughter. He's been called out as evil etc etc. But still no call to the police?

He allegedly told his daughter he wished she was dead. And still no call to the police?

Regardless of "blah blah blah whatever it was...my sister" a good aunt and sister would call the police.

HappyFlappy · 04/03/2017 10:27

foogirl

OP is supporting her sister and niece and is trying to respect their wishes in this matter. It would be best all round if they could come to the decision themselves to involve the police.

I'm sure that OP will take on board Math's excellent post, and if necessary take matters further herself, but this poor woman and her child have had decisions taken of them for years - making the choice to leave/involve police/whatever is part of a very complex process of regaining their own autonomy.

I wish things were as black and white as you seem to think. They aren't - there are a damn sight more than fifty shades of grey, believe you me!

kittybiscuits · 04/03/2017 10:29

You can record calls without the permission of the other party. You cannot play those call recordings to a third party.

kittybiscuits · 04/03/2017 10:32

I'm not sure why anyone thinks him saying to his daughter he wishes she was dead would be a police matter. If he threatened to kill her it definitely would be. But just be a nasty inappropriate pig is not a criminal offence. Other things he has done are, however.

youarenotkiddingme · 04/03/2017 10:44

Please don't refer to yourself as the family fuck up.

People's lives are never as simple or what they may seem from the outside.
What you've done these past few days is show what an amazing and compassionate human being you are

BurningBridges · 04/03/2017 11:03

Has someone already asked why is he getting the house, why hasn't he been told to pack up and leave, then DS and DN can get back in and change locks? Has that been arranged?

mylaptopismylapdog · 04/03/2017 11:06

So sorry your sister and niece have been through all this but what you and your brother have done for them so far bodes very well for the future, you have both demonstrated to them that they are loved and well supported in a practical caring way. You are definitely not the fuck up of the family, Fuck ups don't save people from abuse!!

Mix56 · 04/03/2017 12:42

Abusers don't offer to leave, they say its their house, they paid for it...
In this case, the immediate solution was to get out (niece had already left).
They will see who gets the house ultimately , maybe he will be man enough to let them go back.
If Sis has not income, he will assume she has nowhere else to go longterm, & will ask for her to return & "work things out", he will offer to go to counselling etc.
This is all part of the script. He may be having a breakdown, but it does not involve joint therapy.

KarmaNoMore · 05/03/2017 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EnormousTiger · 05/03/2017 10:58

And it depends on the type of court action. I don't do crimiunal law. In my area of law the court will often allow recordings even without permission if that gets to the heart of proving something. It is different in criminal cases.

If there is physical danger then yes best to move out and fight later to get the house back (do they own or just rent it)? In cases without violence always better to stay put and get the other person out if you can.

mathanxiety · 05/03/2017 21:33

Don't bother recording. If you want phone abuse to stop, then write down what was said and send a memo to the other party - minutes of the phone call so to speak - including all the objectionable phrases used. Make it clear that you are filing notes on all communication.

Tell them they can communicate only by e-mail and that will also put the wind up them. Plus it will accomplish the aim of freeing you from very distressing phone calls, which is what you want after all, and it will teach him that his victims are no longer freely available for him to abuse as he pleases. It also warns him that his abuse will be on record if he chooses to use the e-mails to threaten, insult, or emotionally and psychologically abuse the family.

Treating the abuser like this will give the victims a taste of power, always most beneficial for people who have lived in fear, and the effect - not living in fear of the next time the phone rings - is great. It will vex and frustrate the abuser. It is completely reasonable and civilised and it tells him he no longer owns his victims.

KarmaNoMore · 05/03/2017 22:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Flypaperforarseholes · 07/03/2017 09:59

Thank you to everyone who has posted comments of support, kindness and advice. This is the fantastic side of Mumsnet. My Dsis has an appointment to see an advisor at Womens Aid today and is considering seeking a restraining/non-molestation order, she'll be asking for advice on that from Women's Aid. Mathanxiety, thank you for the email suggestion. Dsis has blocked the prick from hers and nieces phones and has told him contact is through email only.
My niece is doing great so far, her form tutor has been very helpful and GP is referring her to talking therapy (I think).
I'm so grateful for all the helpful and supportive posts.

For the few people who have made comments such as "very dramatic", "still no police?" etc., I would just like to point out that the comments you make in these threads are read by people who are going through issues which have made enough of an impact in their lives for them to be asking for advice and support. If you wouldn't say it to them face to face, don't type it.
If you think a post isn't genuine, report it. Don't be an arsehole who is so keen to be Columbo they are happy to risk upsetting someone who is already going through a difficult and stressful time.

OP posts:
BurningBridges · 07/03/2017 10:31

Fly - still think you are amazing, wish your family all the best I know its going to be a long slog. I notice those who were making those comments didn't come back on the thread even though many of them are regular posters; it would have taken then nothing to come on and say "ok I was wrong hope all is well" that sort of thing.

BantyCustards · 07/03/2017 10:45

OP

You absolutely CAZn record someone without their knowledge. You cannot share it with third parties.

You CAN use a recording to write a transcript which you sign and date and declare that it is a true recollection of the conversation.

A skilled solicitor can work it so a judge may want to hear the actual recording.

MrsDoylesladder · 07/03/2017 11:27

OP, you are clearly the opposite of the family fuck up. And even if you have had hiccups along the way, bloody hell, you are great in a crisis.

KindDogsTail · 07/03/2017 14:06

That is very interesting and useful advice about recording, Banty.

Your sister and niece, you and your brother will all need a lot of strength now. Good luck, and well done for intervening.

Wallywobbles · 07/03/2017 19:33

I'm not in the uk (France) but the judge heard a recording of my ex husband making a death threat so it could be authenticated. She asked his permission and he gave it because he said it wasn't him. But it clearly was. He admitted it was him. But his justification was it wasn't in his interests to kill me!

Intelligent man my ex. Blinded by his own brilliance in court though.

EnormousTiger · 07/03/2017 21:18

Flypaper, well done.

For those who think they do not believe everyone on here I think it's always best to assume everyone is genuine as even if they are not others in a similar situation may read and post and find the advice useful.

(As people say it depends on the recording and type of court case as whether it can be used. I read a very moving account of a lady whose daughter aged 5 was allegedly abused by a family friend in this week's Sunday newspaper magazine - she recorded the girl the day she told her mother what the friend had done. Unfortunately the tape could not be used at the trial as the girl's testimony was not taken in the usual way but it was good evidence to put to the police and convinced them there was enough to proceed ot trial (the man was found not guilty however) - for those who subscribe to The Times it is here www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-mothers-worst-nightmare-hp0lfdh0d

mathanxiety · 08/03/2017 03:22

Hear hear, EnormousTiger.

Fly, very glad to hear your Dsis has blocked him and is insisting on only e-mail contact.

Great to hear she will also be talking to Women's Aid, and hopefully she will get the non-mol order.

DeadGood · 08/03/2017 12:29

Hope it's all going ok, Fly.

KindDogsTail · 08/03/2017 13:12

Re accusing posters of being false. I agree. Presume posters are telling the truth, or report them privately.

I was once telling the truth about something important to me, and upsetting, and my whole post got closed down and my account blocked with no warning to me. Although I was finally able to get MN to believe me, they did not want to put my original post back for fear of more trouble. It was extremely upsetting and shut down the discussion of an important issue.

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