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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that a known bully shouldn't be rewarded

248 replies

Konmariconvert · 01/03/2017 16:42

I do name change periodically and this is my first post under my latest name change.

My ds YR4 (and two other boys) have separately been the victim of bullying in school by the same boy. Unbeknown to me at the time the other boys parents have been into school at different times over the last 6 months. The bullying was nasty and bully boy got his groupies to get in the act too.

This boy has been dealt with by the head, who incidentally believed every word I was saying about this boy. I don't know if sanctions were issued but frankly I just wanted the bullying to stop. This boy has calmed down and ds keeps a wide birth. He's back to his normal self and would tell me if not.

Here's the thing... school have just picked their football team, only 10 boys were picked from 40, bully boy has been given a spot. Part of me thinks this is wrong and sends the wrong message to bully boys victims and their parents given that this was only dealt with very recently.

OP posts:
Userone1 · 01/03/2017 22:02

Big ears then you have a problem with the school, not the bully

Original poster
Konmariconvert · 01/03/2017 22:02

Let me clarify, I was not happy, I said the bullying had stopped within the last week and ds had told me that he was leaving him alone (for now) but we are talking less than one week on from the last incident!

I was not aware that the boy had previously bullied other children, the fact that he did tells me that whatever sanctions were given were not deemed important to him since he carried on with his bullying.

So yes, under these circumstances he had not proven that his word could be trusted so the honour of being selected for the football team is not appropriate or acceptable.

OP posts:
mycatwantstokillme1 · 01/03/2017 22:04

Annahibiscuits Flowers

The boy I spoke about earlier on in the thread was, a few weeks later, voted (by the teachers) to be head boy. What message does that send to him and his friends who relentlessly took the piss out of my son and publicly humiliated him? One week the teachers are 'having a word' with him because of what he did (which was so fucking cruel and they had the messages he sent to my son, encouraging him to humiliate himself to all the other boys i nthe class) and the next they're saying he's a fine example of a head boy.

For the last 2 years what he did has fucked my son's confidence. Only about a week ago DS reminded me that it was the '2 year anniverary' of when the bully did what he did. That's the effect it had on my son. But it was fine for the teachers to vote this nasty piece of shit head boy.

So yes I know there are always reasons why bullies are the way the are and the focus should be on changing their behaviour for the better. That makes life better for everyone, if they stop bullying others. But they also need to understand that their actions have consequences and rewarding a bully so soon after what they've done to their victims is not fair. Don't keep punishing them sure, but don't actively reward them either.

Quartz2208 · 01/03/2017 22:07

The thing is it's not a reward in the sense that team sports should go to the most capable. Not including him would be a punishment or a sanction. Now it's arguable that it could be a sanction used but in this case it wasn't and therefore it would punish him again

I would keep an eye and conversation up with the school

Annahibiscuits · 01/03/2017 22:10

If you are attempting to balance this boys football inclusion with OPs sons desire to 'not be alive'

And by extrapolation, my dds psychological damage and school exclusion

You ARE the problem

ZackyVengeance · 01/03/2017 22:14

Ffs its football a game
Allowing a child that a week ago was being a bully, to play a game is a reward
Picking him out of 40 is a reward
People keep saying how young he is, so to him it will be a game.
So why the hell dont the grown ups use it as something to change his behaviour?
abully will not be reformed after a week.
He should be apologetic and made to see how wrong his behaviour is.
Not allowed to play a game.
They are only 8 how good can they be at football, there were other kids that could play.

HicDraconis · 01/03/2017 22:16

And yet - again with Ched Evans - he was accused, tried and punished.

And people were still saying "don't let him play football".

Nobody said "he's been punished already, he should be allowed to play in his chosen sport".

Why is this bully being allowed to play in the team? Why should Ched Evans not have been allowed to return to his career?

(I don't think CE should have been allowed to play, should make that clear. But I don't think this bully should be allowed to - yet - either. Show him that behaviour has consequences and when it is clear he has learned, give him a chance to try out for it).

mycatwantstokillme1 · 01/03/2017 22:17

I agree with Anna and OP. If there are 40 boys in the year and only 10 places I'd prefer that the places went to a mixture of those who were good at it, enjoyed it and would be good team players. How do those other 30 boys feel who aren't bullies that didn't make it into the team? What message does that send them? That you can be rewarded for bullying your peers?Perhaps the bully in OP's case should be told that if there's a marked improvement in his behaviour he can be considered for the team next term/be put on the bench. That's not punishing him, that's telling him that if he changes his negative behaviour he'll be rewarded and not before.

Userone1 · 01/03/2017 22:20

Anna school is problem, any school that does not take bullying seriously.

Calling for a bully not to be allowed to play football is childish. Either the OP's school take bullying seriously and apply appropriate sanctions or they don't.

If they don't, then banning football is either here nor there. OP needs to address the bigger issue, rather than revenge

Original poster
Konmariconvert · 01/03/2017 22:21

The thing is it's not a reward in the sense that team sports should go to the most capable

Above all else?

OP posts:
Fighterofthenightman · 01/03/2017 22:23

Annahi - cross post with your later post. If your 6 year old DC was sexually assaulted as part of the bullying by a child the same age or even a few years older than absolutely that is hideous but can't be blamed on the child. The parents possibly are where the issue lies but there may be other abuse happening.

I am genuinely so sorry for what you and your family are going through. I am not minimising anything. I have worked in MH for 20 years. I've worked with victims of bullies and the bullies themselves so I've seen both sides; the reasons why and the consequences which are often lifelong for both.

I've known bullied children experience such trauma that would be unimaginable to most adults. I've known bullies be going through trauma that would be unimaginable even though everyone thought they were fine and had a nice life. I've known bullies (as part of their challenging behaviour or neuro developmental disorder) be sent to PRUs or specialist placements and be systematically abused by staff or exploited by predators hanging around those particular units.

So those things colour my response. I don't favour a bully but I've seen what can happen when a child is considered a bully early on and not given chances to be anything else. It doesn't mean I don't care about victims because I do.

I really do feel your and your DCs pain, I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise.

Annahibiscuits · 01/03/2017 22:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

bigearsthethird · 01/03/2017 22:26

Userone1 sorry but are you for real? Is your child a bully by any chance because you seem to be really behind the bullies.

If you think schools deal with persistent bullies you are very much mistaken. That's why it's persistent. Putting that kid in the football team is a kick in the teeth for his 3 victims.

But we wouldn't want to upset the bully now would we?

Annahibiscuits · 01/03/2017 22:27

That was to userone

Annahibiscuits · 01/03/2017 22:30

fighter I know very well that these are children. But what me and the OP are asking, is for the adults to stand up

I know about child neglect/abuse and its effects from a personal point of view. It does not excuse the perpetuation of abuse

ZackyVengeance · 01/03/2017 22:31

Ffs yes the bully needs help
But. Week later a school should not give tem a place in a sought after event of any kind
They should have to prove they have changed first.
Its not hard to understand.
And guess what the victims oftem come from difficult backgrounds.
Mine was bullied, the bullies used his disabled sister as their weapon.
He was as young as they were, he is a grown man now, but he still remembers.

mycatwantstokillme1 · 01/03/2017 22:34

User1

" Calling for a bully not to be allowed to play football is childish "

No, it isn't. It's helping them understand that they can't treat other people like shit and then automatically get to do the fun stuff until they've proven they can change their behaviour. I think it might take longer than a week to learn that though.

Your comment is pretty insensitive to those of us whose kids lives have been made miserable by bullies. And if the impact of that bullying has a long lasting affect on your children and you see their pain every day and how it impacts them so much they need CAMHS intervention you might realise why we think it's so unfair that bullies are rewarded in some cases, just like this case. We're not calling for a bloody public flogging, we're just asking that their behviour changes before they get priviledges, and being picked for the football team is a priviledge.

Annahibiscuits · 01/03/2017 22:35

Flowers to all the parents on this thread of kids that have been bullied. And I hope they all recover

worridmum · 01/03/2017 22:36

but you cannot keep "punishing" a child for the same offence.

If your child hit a sibling you would give a punishment there and then but you then wouldnt keep on punishing him/her for the same "crime" over and over again

mycatwantstokillme1 · 01/03/2017 22:36

What has really got to me on this thread is how flippant some posters are - the general implication is that those of us with bullied kids are over reacting.

If only you knew.

Userone1 · 01/03/2017 22:39

Anna, it doesn't matter what I consider appropriate, that's kinda the point. It's what the OP's school consider appropriate. OP feels the school are not taking bullying seriously, that's the bigger issue.

Big ears read my previous post about my ds being severely bullied. You stated in your post your school doesn't follow any anti bullying policy. I said then you have a problem with school, why would I not be for real? Who do you think your problem would be with then?

Annahibiscuits · 01/03/2017 22:39

worried really? Because I would keep punishing, until I see behaviour changes

My child wouldn't leave the house for 6 months...She is being punished....for nothing

zzzzz · 01/03/2017 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fighterofthenightman · 01/03/2017 22:43

I would imagine (and hope) that the sports team placement was initially treated as separate to the bullying which was apparently dealt with. So he's had a good opportunity which I agree with.

If there were further allegations of bullying or unacceptable behaviour then I think the membership should be reviewed with full explanations of expected behaviour beforehand and then sanctions if it was not achieved.

mycatwantstokillme1 · 01/03/2017 22:44

Annahibiscuits I was bullied for a short time at the end of juniors. It didn't last long but started with being physically forced to french kiss a boy I didn't like, then name calling, isolating me from everyone else in the class (they were too scared of the girls to go against them so they all stopped speaking to me bar one girl), to threats of violence to physical violence.

I remember the terror still of them finally chasing me after school and punching me in the back and only stopping when an older girl that lived in our street pulled them off me. I remember my mum going up the school the next day and the teachers speaking to the girls involved and them laughing. I remember they started singing to the tune of one of Sheena Easton's songs 'I'll get my mum-ma up the school' and laughing about it. I almost wet myself with fear.

That fear stayed with me from the age of 11 til about 27, impacted on my future friendships, work relationships, intimate relationships. I know how long it takes to recover. It really upsets me now writing this down. When I saw my son going through bullying I shed a few tears when he wasn't around because I knew how he felt. And I know how long it will stay with him for, how long it will stay with your daughter, and all the other kids here who have been bullied.

But it will get better. I hope it doesn't take as long as it took me, and truly wish all the best for our kids who have been on the receiving end of this cruelty.