to think that a known bully shouldn't be rewarded

[Konmariconvert]

I do name change periodically and this is my first post under my latest name change.

My ds YR4 (and two other boys) have separately been the victim of bullying in school by the same boy. Unbeknown to me at the time the other boys parents have been into school at different times over the last 6 months. The bullying was nasty and bully boy got his groupies to get in the act too.

This boy has been dealt with by the head, who incidentally believed every word I was saying about this boy. I don't know if sanctions were issued but frankly I just wanted the bullying to stop. This boy has calmed down and ds keeps a wide birth. He's back to his normal self and would tell me if not.

Here's the thing... school have just picked their football team, only 10 boys were picked from 40, bully boy has been given a spot. Part of me thinks this is wrong and sends the wrong message to bully boys victims and their parents given that this was only dealt with very recently.

There is a difference between punishment and consequences.

It is zacky

Swear, name call, hurl insults, great way to shut down any sensible discussion

I wasn't going to bite but sod it.
My son has Aspergers. He's never bullied anyone. What an odd comment.

I understand that some children who have SNs or behavioural problems have difficulty in friendships or social situations (I know this all too well with my own DS). But some bullies, are simply just naughty. The bully that made my DDs life a living hell (and others amongst the class) had no SNs or behavioural problems. She did so purely because she could, she knew she'd get away with it, all she had to do was behave for a few days and then start back up again. Most chilsren were lucky if she chose a non swimming day to pick on them. They only got twatted once or twice or workbooks hidden or their packed lunches ruined. On a swimming day, she'd stick her foot out at the side of the pool and laugh at anyone who's almost fall in.
This child was disciplined every time, (consequence) but would do the same again. After a particular incident involving my DD and another child. I went in. (This was just after an Ofsted report where they'd been slammed, for, incidentally, 'not dealing with behaviour impacting on the learning of the class effectively'. Her Dad and I went in and asked the school what this child was learning from the repeated consequences, which she got used to having so didnt care anymore as they had no effect on her, if she was repeating the same behaviour everytime. She was put on zero tolerance and was a different child within a week.
So I understand what OP means. Especially given it's only been a week since the boy was given one of the most prestigious awards.

For what it's worth OP. I do understand what you mean. But i doubt little can be done now, the child has already given the place and maybe the school are hoping it'll boost his concentration and keep him behaving? (you said things have calmed down). For all you know he could have been given the place on the proviso that his behaviour continues to improve and if he goes back to his old ways he loses the spot? I'd hide this if i was you as it appears you'll be talking into the Ether

"My son has Aspergers. He's never bullied anyone. What an odd comment"

What comment, by who?

My son has never bullied anyone either, been severely bullied himself. In fact I have had to remove him from several schools.

His current school, he has attended for about 8 months and no signs of bullying at all. After several years and several schools of being bullied daily, to the point of being suicidal.

Which got me thinking, what's the difference between previous schools and current school?

Previous schools claimed to have zero tolerance, when approached it was either denied or nothing was done about it or child is 'punished' or 'excluded' etc. In my experience it doesn't work. It might work for a short time or on that particular child, but it's not long before bullying returns or another child does the bullying.

Current school have extremely effective behaviour and consequences policies. All children know exactly what is expected of them and consequences of any actions, this is Positive reinforcement, rather than negative reinforcement.

The children (and parents) see any incidents being dealt with, promptly and consistently. It builds a very strong ethos of what is and isn't accepted.

On the rare occasion one child hits or is unkind etc. School deal with the conflict, they explain the behaviour is not acceptable and how they expect the behaviour to change. They model the behaviour they want to reinforce. It makes for a kind and caring school, with minimal incidents.

This is a specialist school by the way. So all the children have disabilities.

In fact your description of the child in question is VERY like the description of many children with Aspergers

This bit by z user.

Which got me thinking, what's the difference between previous schools and current school?

user I think it's the schools policy on it. I moved my DS because his bloody senco was clueless he was bloody miserable at his last school. Too big. Too loud. No support whatsoever. He's been at his current school almost 18months now. One with the class bully (every school has them - it's how they're dealt with) and the second was when a Y6 challenged him to a fight. (DS (Y3) has a habit of teasing, which is funny at first when his friend or his sibling is laughing, but he doesn't 'get' when people have had enough). Both incidents were dealt with robustly and he was subsequently put on the Elsa course (not frozen related ). DD has never had a problem with her class, apart from the whole class 'establishing the pecking order' in the first few weeks as they do. This is in a world of contrast to where she would be openly bullied in the class at her last school and the staff were too scared to deal with most of the children in question in case they upset the parents Including a group of year 5 girls crowding round a cornered new girl and only ever stopping when the 'strict' teacher of the school clocked them as they walked to the staffroom. I dread to think what would have happened to that poor girl if that teacher hadn't heard them.

I had a similar experience with Ds. In a school where they denied any issues. Even when they rang to tell me about them when Ds became anxious to attend they denied the event. Even when I showed them the written report they have given (emails etc) telling me when I complained they then said they were Mis worded or badly worded.

New school Ds still has issues. But they deal with it immediately and it never escalates. A good whole school ethos with clear guidelines really is effective.

Away - with regard to zzzz she did go to explain "sorry I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasn't suggesting the child had Aspergers, more that his behaviour might respond to a more outcome focused response" and so on.

I cannot speak on her behalf, however I get what she means repeateded bullying is a behaviour issue.

Anyhow, that is exactly my point, it's the school policy or lack of that makes all the difference to bullying. I think this thread has tended to focus on the bully and putting a stop to it ( the child). I'm saying it's the schools responsibility and their lack of enforcing policy, so focus on them!

@ frozen!

I'm saying it's the schools responsibility and their lack of enforcing policy, so focus on them!

Yes I agree. I also think this is exactly what the OP was trying to say, that a boy being 'rewarded' for such behaviour just a week after the last incident was showing a school who was lax in their policies to say the least.

Everyone knows that children fall out. I remember taking DD back to school a few years ago after a morning hospital appointment, I took her back in for lunch and was told to go straight down yo the hall. A fight broke out between two boys in the queue. Fisticuffs the lot and it had to be broken up by the staff. Imagine my suprise when picking the DCs up at hometime and seeing both boys running off to football club hand in hand as if the lunchtime scrap never happened! however this isn't what the OP described though and can easily see she's not wanting the boy to be punished repeatedly for something he's already been disciplined for but wanting the school to perhaps have a more clear and robust policy. Like I said before though, we don't know if this was a condition of him being offered the football spot in the first place.

Away "that a boy being 'rewarded' for such behaviour just a week after the last incident was showing a school who was lax in their policies to say the least"

This is the bit I don't agree with, unless the school policy is to punish a child at the time of the incident. Then again a week later. Which is doubtful.

That's why I put rewarded in inverted commas user. Like I said to the OP in one of my earlier posts. They can't just take it off him now because he was naughty a week ago. But from what the OP has said it was systematic up to this point, it wasn't just a case of naughty once or twice.

Like I said before though, no one knows if he's a massive football enthusiast who's been told he'll lose the place if he misbehaves/bullies again, maybe that works more for this kid than simply being told he's not allowed out at break time or put in detention. Doesn't mean the OP can't feel understandably cross about what seems unfair to her.

Hopefully OP, this will be the end of it, but if it isn't, and it starts up again, I'd be having another meeting with the staff to ask what work they're doing with him to help curb this, and also what help they could offer your DS if needed. Hopefully won't be needed though.

It's not one incident though is it!

It has come to light that this boy has had three separate parents go into school on three separate occasions during the last 5 months. The latter incident was only dealt with last week.

Given that this boy has clearly learned nothing from the first two sanctions (whatever they were) indicates to me that he's not bothered by these sanctions and that a pattern of behaviour is forming.

The message that is being sent to this boy by giving him a spot on the team (given all of the above) is that he can keep doing what he's been told not to do and still get what he wants.

However I get that not everyone will agree with me, having that that not one comment made on this thread has swayed my opinion.

Kon if this boy is repeatedly bullying and the sanctions are not working, in my opinion you need to speak to school about putting effective strategies into place.

I suspect your school have policies that a) they are not using b) or not using consistently c) children/parents have no idea what they are

Rather than calling for harsher sanctions, I suspect all school need to do is follow the policies they already have in place, consistently for them to be effective.

All children, need very clear behaviour, boundaries and consequences so they know what is expected of them. You can't just make them up on the spot.

Personally I would get copies of school policies and ensure they follow them. If they don't follow them, complain until they do.

So, the best way to deal with a bully is to never reward them for their achievements ever?

I can understand if he was given an "outstanding citizen" award at school, that might be a bit off, but excluding them from non related activities. Being in the team isn't a reward, it is part of school life. Team sports help build the self esteem of children, help them work as a team, give them a focus, builds discipline, keep them out of mischief. If he's at football practice, he isn't bullying children. It also gives the school currency, as bad behaviour will see him missing games and that might just be what helps turn him around.

It's tough when you perceive your child is being unjustly treated, but if I heard my child's bully was joining a football team, I'd be pleased he was given something that might just help him reform.

My DC were bullied by children who constantly got away with it. Guess what, all the children were excluded once they reached high school because they could no longer get away with the behaviour. The violence also escalated with age. Every single one of these DC were allowed to get away Scot free at home. These parents would excuse the behaviour. Whereas the occasional bullies with consequences at home seemed to grow out of it.

Often schools have policies such as a 'no blame' approach where children are not punished. A boy that bullied day DS was often rewarded with extra forest school or days out. All the kids noticed and felt it was unfair. Once the boy reached 10 many parents got the police involved on the assaults.

My point is, it's a bit silly to call for harsher sanctions when a) you don't know what the sanctions are in the first place and b) you don't know whether said sanctions were even applied.

Make it your business to find out!

Usually the school football season starts in September...

derxa what on earth has your comment got to with it

I suspect your school have policies that a) they are not using b) or not using consistently c) children/parents have no idea what they are

Rather than calling for harsher sanctions, I suspect all school need to do is follow the policies they already have in place, consistently for them to be effective.

OR

The school has done that and its made no bloody difference seeing as this child is STILL bullying.

I think its a massive insult to anyone who has been bullied by this child.

He can join an outside of school team so he wont miss out on his football. And if he was that bloody gifted a local team would snap him up.

By not putting him on school team it says to the other children that if you bully make another childs life a living hell you do not represent the school until that bullying has been stopped for a certain degree of time. More than 1 week.

No wonder there are so many youtube videos of kids in secondary beating up other kids. its because they have been allowed to get away with it in primary and actually inadvertantly rewarded for it in many many cases

Cheese the OP has already said she doesn't know what the sanctions are or whether the sanctions were applied.

It is therefore a bit silly to call for harsher sanctions without finding out.