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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to think my niece is being neglected?

238 replies

Carlalala101 · 28/02/2017 22:39

I live very close to my sister and my ten year old niece; I look after her before and after school while my sister works and occasionally during the evenings or weekends if my sister goes out so DN and I are very close. My sister has been a single parent since DN was one and her ex sees DN on alternate weekends and for half of the holidays.

When she is with her dad, he (or someone he knows) collects her from school. She says he's often on his phone and continues this via Bluetooth during the 45 minute journey home. He then gets home and falls asleep as he's tired from his week at work. She then has unlimited access to his phone, ipad, tv and food cupboards. She's watched things which have given her nightmares for weeks before and even if he isn't asleep, he let's/encourages her to watch them. Her dad is morbidly obese and goes through cycles of gorging then surviving on smoothies. DN is naturally very greedy and doesn't know when to stop when it comes to food. He will buy her a large adult meal with milkshake plus an extra burger and ice cream at mcdonalds. When they went to Pizza Hut last week she said she had nine slices plus chips and ice cream. She giggles about eating ten biscuits or half a tube of pringles without him even noticing. She would never think to take food without permission at home or mine so I can only think he does know but doesn't stop her.

She is a soap dodger and hates brushing her teeth. My sister brushes them for her because otherwise she'll just pretend to do it and ended up with fillings last year. My sister chats with her while she showers to make sure she's washing, otherwise she just let's the water run for a bit then gets out. My DN doesn't care about being supervised and my DSIS figures when she does care she'll also care about washing properly. When she's at her dad's, he doesn't check on her tooth brushing or showering despite my sister having mentioned several times to him that DN is coming home smelly and sore. I picked her up from school on Monday and I could smell her breath and sweat immediately. She's on the cusp of puberty and does need to shower daily now. My sister has spoken to her about hygiene but DN doesn't care if she smells but then gets upset when she starts becoming sore down below.

DN says she goes to bed at the same time as her dad (I. E. late) waits for him to start snoring and then goes to get the ipad and snacks for herself. She is always extremely ratty on a Monday from lack of sleep. After she's finished on the ipad she gets into bed with him and he doesn't send her back to her room, despite DSIS having told him that it results in DN being extremely upset at home when DSIS won't let her share her bed.

My DSIS is exasperated with it all but thinks it's all just minor stuff that a court wouldn't be interested in so there's nothing she can do. I think DN is being neglected while with her dad and that my DSIS shouldn't keep letting it continue. DN is too immature to take responsibility for herself so I think DSIS should make sure things change. What do you think?

OP posts:
SookiesSocks · 02/03/2017 11:28

Thats streatching it a bit isnt it Rix you have no idea at all that those things are happening.

We can all make shit up to fit our opinion Hmm

BobbieDog · 02/03/2017 11:45

I can believe shes sore after not washing etc as my 4 year old gets sore very frequently.

If shes washed in soap in the bath instead of her usual hydromol liquid thing then dd will get sore. If i havent bathed her for afew days for whatever reason then she will get sore. She just has very sensitive skin.

When i was 10 i was a swine for not brushing my teeth and washing, its very common at this age but as you become a teenager you tend to start taking more pride in yourself. Many children this age have to be stood over to make sure they do things properly.

He does sound a crap parent.

hackneyandbow · 02/03/2017 11:51

do Pizza Hut not do curly fries anymore? Sad

Rixera · 02/03/2017 11:59

Sookie I didn't say it was definitely happening, only that it could. And given the red flags, some investigation is necessary to make sure that it isn't.

Otherwise the risk is that a child endures continuing abuse at the hands of her father because 'it might not be happening'.
Oh and I don't think it's a stretch at all given how many children are abused, how frequently said abuse happens in the home, and how many warning signs this girl is displaying.

MrsJaniceBattersby · 02/03/2017 12:02

I don't think there's anymore to add to this thread
Any advice is being ignored

Rixera · 02/03/2017 12:05

No, I've reported it for that reason amongst others but I can't help replying to other posters as it's something I feel strong enough.
It seems in such poor taste to post all this and ignore every response.

Rixera · 02/03/2017 12:08

*strongly about

Bluntness100 · 02/03/2017 12:09

I'm just not getting this. A ten year old child who shares a bed with her father, who comes home visibly sore between her legs after visiting him , who blatantly displays her genitalia and has no personal boundaries and the concern from the op is she has free access to snacks and the internet at her fathers home and wonders if unlimited snacks and Internet is neglect?

On what planet would that be any persons primary concern in this scenario? It's the very least of the worries here.

BorrowedHeart · 02/03/2017 12:19

I'm gonna probably get slated for this, but, maybe her mother is neglectful too, seeing as she says her daughter is NT yet can't seem to wash herself or wipe properly? I get why people think sexual abuse but honestly, the wrong toilet paper or wiping the wrong way can cause that, why won't her mum actually investigate anything or does she just not care? Will she not try and get her daughter checked out in case she loses her 'break' from her daughter? Sorry but everything you have said op, screams neglect and lack of care from the mums part as well as the dad, if she cared about her daughter at all then she would get her to a go and find out why she is red, why does she let her daughter get into pain every other weekend without caring for why? They both sound incompetent and it's the daughter that suffers.

ghostspirit · 02/03/2017 12:36

I felt similar heart but in a different way. It's like the mum is doing everything for her so the child is not developing or learning boundaries simlar of other children that age. I wonder is that is a form of neglect.

Sanityseeker75 · 02/03/2017 12:41

I am going to go against a lot of people on here and say that I don't think that she is being abused. I also think you know this because if you didn't you would absolutely have done something about it but:

falls asleep upon coming home, again no interest in her and the fact that you say when his girlfriend is there she chooses to go into his bed does not suggest a father who is abusing his daughter. But a daughter who is very possessive of her father and it sounds like the fact that there has been periods of NC and court that she is scared of not being allowed to see him.

They split up 9 years ago, how long were they together? Everything you say suggests that you barely know him yet you sound very close to DN and DSIS so is it only recently that you have been close? It is just very confusing to get context of how all relationships seem to fit?

I think he is clearly shit at placing any boundaries and this is probably why she loves going there and being with him but not really neglect.

BorrowedHeart · 02/03/2017 12:43

ghost yes, exactly. She isn't letting her child learn, even my 3 year old can wipe herself after a wee and refususes to let me half the time lol. The mum is babying too much the dad isn't helping her enough the kid is just confused and doesn't know what the fuck to do, so when she is at her dads I think she lets the "freedom" go to her head.

lougle · 02/03/2017 12:54

I'm not seeing this in the same way as other posters. I have three girls, 11, 9 and 7. One has moderate special needs (11), one probably has special needs (awaiting assessment, 9) and one is NT (7). So I think our family covers a wide range of possibilities.

Without exception, they all get sore if they don't wipe properly from front to back with tissue, because urine is acidic and it burns delicate skin.

My most vulnerable child for this is DD2, who is fond of food and tending towards the high end of the BMI bracket. As she is plumper, the skin will nestle together more, so it can get more sore, and she is my most reluctant showerer.

So while the other stuff isn't great, I don't think it would fall as neglect and I certainly don't see red flags for abuse because a little girl is a bit sore down below, walks around naked and doesn't like to wash. Unless you want to flag my children (and probably half the country) while you're there!

IamFriedSpam · 02/03/2017 12:54

The problem with this is that you can't tell if the mum is babying her and causing her to be delayed or whether the mother is babying her because of delays. I got the impression the girl was deliberately avoiding all self care (e.g. showers, teeth brushing etc)

bumsexatthebingo · 02/03/2017 13:48

Absolutely don't discount abuse but I'm surprised at the amount of people who think that failing to wipe after the loo or wash for days couldn't possibly cause irritation/soreness. Urine is acidic and that area is sensitive. There is a reason that people generally wipe after the loo and shower!
Also cartwheeling on the way to the shower is hardly the same as parading naked in front of all and sundry and plenty of people co-sleep. You could twist almost anything to sound sinister if you were so inclined. Including the ops dsis supervising showering.
Since the father has already been investigated by ss I think the ops sis would be best off getting her child more independent with toileting and washing rather than her relying on mum.

Carlalala101 · 02/03/2017 14:33

It is DN herself that says she's sore because she hasn't showered. She probably also rushes wiping because she doesn't like going to the toilet alone so the two together would result in soreness in my opinion. Like your DD lougle, she is bigger for her age and so her legs can rub together too which probably doesn't help.

I don't see how DSIS is babying her? Brushing her teeth for her is recommended by the dentist. If she didn't chat/brush her teeth/pop in and out while she's in the shower then DN just wouldn't wash. She knows it results in soreness but doesn't act to prevent it so what choice does my sister have?

OP posts:
bumsexatthebingo · 02/03/2017 14:40

I don't know. Putting some rewards in place maybe or taking her to choose some shower stuff she likes? Does your dsis have to talk her through washing each area? Maybe you could laminate a flip chart or something to help her be a bit more independent. She'll be going through puberty soon and your sis can't help her with self care forever so needs to be working towards independence even if it's only baby steps. I know you've said there are no sen but a lot of the things you've mentioned don't sound quite right for an nt 10 yr old.

Carlalala101 · 02/03/2017 14:56

She has queried SN. School and GP say no and refuse to take it further. She's tried getting her her own wash bag and toiletries but it made no difference.

OP posts:
Gottagetmoving · 02/03/2017 15:11

My daughter used to stay at her Dads at weekends when she was 10.
I would not have liked it if she had said she shared his bed. If she came home sore I would have been bloody worried.

LIZS · 02/03/2017 15:17

How long ago did she approach gp/school? There is nothing to stop her going back again, listing all the issues including the "soreness". Would your dn listen to practice nurse re.hygiene? It should be covered in pshce too. School must notice if she smells, doesn't do homework, is overtired, behaves inappropriately etc. If you ever collect your dn you could raise safeguarding concerns, otherwise it is only a matter of time before they do. If it continues into senior school she will be vulnerable to bullying and more.

BettyBaggins · 02/03/2017 15:23

I just wanted to say that I think salty fingers from Pringles scoffing and no washing/wiping badly/touching that area sounds like a recipe for soreness.

Unsupervised access to the Ipad when Dad is sleeping could be an issue too. Do you know what she is watching?

JustSpeakSense · 02/03/2017 15:25

I don't think what you describe is neglect, it is very lazy parenting.

If I was your Dsis I would read them both the riot act, things need to change.

The 'sore down below' bit is not normal and that won't happen after a few skipped showers, especially at the age of 10.

Sanityseeker75 · 02/03/2017 16:10

My daughter used to stay at her Dads at weekends when she was 10.
I would not have liked it if she had said she shared his bed.

But it seems this is driven by the DD not the Dad. Not trying to be inflammatory at all but going by the thread it is not a nightly thing just when she wants to. Would you be mad if it was your dd that went to get int bed with him after say a bad dream etc? As I say I really am not meaning to be inflammatory, I just don't know if it is because he is a man and she is a girl as my friends son gets into her bed every night and his dad sleeps in his bed, he is 11. I think it is a bit weird and certainly wouldn't do it but I was never really a fan of co-sleeping especially after 2 or 3 but I do know loads of people who do and I don't think she gets any stick about it because its mom and son not dad and daughter IYSWIM.

Gottagetmoving · 02/03/2017 16:26

Would you be mad if it was your dd that went to get int bed with him after say a bad dream etc?

I would have expected him to comfort her but not have her in his bed at 10.
By that age reassurance should be enough?
I don't think boys are as mature at 10 or 11 as girls may be?

Woody67 · 02/03/2017 16:43

When my DS was about to go to secondary school, so a little older that your DN, he got himself into a terrible state about sleeping. He would have anxiety attacks, wouldn't sleep all night and would spend a lot of time pacing around noisily and calling out so we would go in to comfort him. He would be so upset that he would get into my bed with me and my husband would sleep elsewhere. He wouldn't cuddle up or anything, he simply rolled onto his side and would eventually go off to sleep. He just wanted the comfort of having his parent near him. He's grown out of it now but it took months. You have mentioned that your DN gets upset when she's on her own at her Dad's which perhaps explains the co sleepIng. Her DD does sound quite lazy about boundaries but the co sleeping may not be sinister. Does she get into her mums bed at home? Perhaps she doesn't see it as any different.

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