Interesting letter from a volunteer to non volunteers

[Narnia72]

Volunteering

I hope the link works. We often have discussions about "worthy" volunteers with regard to school activities, but this was a thought provoking read. It was timely for me as my son's football team is having to close the younger age group classes as there's no-one to coach (made up of volunteer coaches). It made me think about all the volunteers who give their time to run low cost groups for my kids; brownies, cubs, football, messy church, netball, youth drama are all run by volunteers. When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in. It's very much the same people, over and over again. Why is that?

It also reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a brown owl, who had been spoken to very rudely by a parent, complaining about the activities on offer, and why they didn't do more. When asked if she would help, this parent recoiled in horror and said "but I PAY you to do this for my kids". There's clearly a massive lack of understanding about what these roles are.

So, open to debate. Do your children benefit from activities run by volunteers? Do you value them? Do you volunteer yourself? If not, do you look to help in any way, either by donations to the group, or supporting fundraising events? Do you ever think to say thank you to the volunteers? This is not meant to be a goady post, I volunteer in a minor capacity at school, but although I do value what the external clubs do for my kids, I am guilty of taking the volunteers who run them very much for granted. I am going to say thanks to them all this week!

I'm trying to help the football team attract coaches (football sadly not something either me or DH are in any way skilled at), and have met with so much apathy and indifference, but also entitlement, as though the tiny sub they pay guarantees a 5 star service.

I know the letter writer is a bit sanctimonious, but thought there were some good points in and amongst. Thoughts?

Sorry, wrong thread!

I do have to say that after working in the public sector. I may feel under appreciated at times in a volunteer role - and find the level of expectations from people trying to access a free and volunteer run service (Citizens Advice) - complaining about not being able to get through on phone lines etc. - a bit much.

I was truly hated by and subjected to proper abuse from the members of the public who did not appreciate having to interact with local government to get parking permits or had complaints about the transport provision in their area. So a bit of low level grumbling and unrealistic expectations is easy to manage in comparison.

aww deadsouls no problem at all. I'm the snippiest of snippy people at times ! and probably come across as a bit of a sanctimonious git at times

Supermoon this quoted stat: People who volunteer and help out in their local community have less depression and live longer doesn't necessarily mean it's due to the volunteering. Just a thought, but maybe those with depression are less able to volunteer in the first place, rather than volunteering being a cure/prevention?!

Presumably, people who volunteer do it because they want to - they are getting some sort of personal fulfilment from it. I don't really get why others need to feel grateful or obliged to do it too.

I have volunteered when it suited me to do it, when it directly benefitted my dc. In all honesty I wasn't doing it for anyone else, so didn't expect other parents to be appreciative.

That said, I would never moan at or criticise volunteers. That is just rude.

formerly

I work full time and volunteer 3hrs a week at my local drop in/food bank.

I work from home as a scientist and have huge flexibility.

To the people who say that those who don't volunteers are 'perfectly happy to attend the events' - um no we fucking aren't! Do you think spending an afternoon dragging kids around tatty stalls, hooking sodding ducks and spending money on other people's cast off teddy bears is my idea of fun? We do that because that is OUR contribution to the school funds - you wouldn't be able to run these fundraising events without people prepared to come along.

The fact that they are often on at times when I have to make special arrangements to be there rather than at work and am caring for all my children solo so can't help on a stall means that I can only assume the volunteers don't have jobs or work part time and have childcare help.

Rousette - God you sound sanctimonious. I was a SAHM for a long period because I suffered from chronic anxiety. So I was one of those women who didn't work but didn't volunteer. However, if you'd seen me at the school gate you would never have guessed how ill I was.

So stop all this 'people are either givers or takers' shit. I took nothing from anyone and all my energies went into being a good mum and raising a lovely DD.

My DH volunteers because he enjoys it and he never gets on his high horse about people who don't volunteer.

"Presumably, people who volunteer do it because they want to - they are getting some sort of personal fulfilment from it. I don't really get why others need to feel grateful or obliged to do it too"

So if your child was one of the 20 kids who gets to play football because my dp willingly give up his time to single handedly coach a team it wouldn't cross your mind to say "Thank you" or occasionally offer to lend a hand with the hour long putting away session that follows the match?

People who volunteer and help out in their local community have less depression and live longer

Hmm, that's one of those odd 'statistics' that looks like it's been extracted from a larger study and presented to support someone's POV. There are too many variables involved - for example it's likely that people who volunteer are more confident to start with, probably less isolated as they get invited to fill volunteer roles or get involved with things and possibly physically fitter as they feel they have the energy to keep up with the commitment required.

Presumably, people who volunteer do it because they want to - they are getting some sort of personal fulfilment from it. I don't really get why others need to feel grateful or obliged to do it too

Sometimes thats true. Othertimes they do it because its the only way their child can do a sport or hobby, which also means yours and others can do it as well. I don't know why you wouldn't feel grateful, tbh?

And often we start out doing it for good reasons, but end up trapped in it because no-one else will do it, so even after we have done more than our fair share, we can't just quit if that means the end of it for everyone.

Of course you don't have to feel grateful that someone else will coach your child in football or run brownies or whatever, for free, giving up their own time. You're a bit of a tit if you don't though.

This thread has just reminded me that I meant to volunteer to help at a PTA event for the children.

The person who ran it was so grateful as only one other person had volunteered.

I'm a volunteer, set up and ran a baby group for a few years, had a little break as I was a bit jaded from the experience by the end. Now I'm starting to get more involved with PTA and when my youngest starts reception I'll volunteer for helping in school on one of my non work days.

I do it to make new friends (I moved to a new area) and just because I can see how it benefits people and feel guilty if I don't.

It's not for everyone though, I can understand that.

mutepoint I'm sorry you feel like that, I have endlessly said that those who can't manage it... shouldn't. (more than once). Of course we do not know who can or who can't manage it and as I said (more than once) I'm talking about those who just won't, as opposed to can't.

I have already taken back the givers or takers post previously. I've said I got that wrong and there are shades of grey. And I apologise to you. And hope you feel better now (that is meant kindly).

I don't volunteer because I'm a shit person.

I could give a long, detailed explanation but I can't see many people on this thread actually believing more than that.

I would say thank you Bertrand, and I would also help clear up if your dp asked. That is basic good manners. But I wouldn't feel obliged to do more than that or take on volunteering roles elsewhere in the community just because some other people choose to - I would think that your dp coaches because he wants to, that he enjoys it and it is his hobby. It isn't mine.

I don't expect people to run Brownie groups etc. I'll use them if they exist but I am equally happy to (and do) use clubs where instructors are paid a wage.

I also think that spending time and money at school fetes is also a contribution.

"I don't volunteer because I'm a shit person.

I could give a long, detailed explanation but I can't see many people on this thread actually believing more than that"

Can I ask whose posts make you think that?

People should volunteer if they want to, and not if they don't. The same as people can give away some of their money if they want to, but don't have to. We don't compile public lists of how much money people give away so we can castigate the stragglers. (Though I suspect I've now put an idea into the head of some readers of this post.)

Really interesting thread, thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. It is really clear that some people, for whatever reason, do not have the capacity to volunteer, and that is totally understandable. It's also clear that there are some people who don't want to, but are appreciative of other people's efforts, fair enough. I am bemused though, by the serial complainers (none of whom have identified themselves on this thread), who are also happy to stand and watch when others are clearly struggling. From the collective experience, there's clearly lots of those about, and their rudeness and unhelpfulness are what actively creates volunteer fatigue and their actions cause people to stop volunteering. How do we stop that? I was on the pfa and stopped specifically because someone wrote a horrible letter to the school about how we were cliquey and offputting to other parents, and operated in secrecy. We had done everything possible to make it an open and welcome environment. After the committee had stepped down the person who wrote the letter (who had said she would love to get involved but not with the current team) was approached to help. Funny enough she couldn't. She now slags off the new team. I would like to write it off as one unfortunate experience, but there are so many people like her, who are happy to tell you how wrong you are doing it, but not at all prepared to invest in doing it themselves.

I didn't post this to make anyone feel shit and defensive about their own situations, just to get an idea of how volunteers are viewed in the community. What does come across in some posts is that some people are actively irritated by volunteers and see them as smug and martyred. To those people, does it change your viewpoint to read the other side, and understand where that attitude comes from? To the volunteers who feel taken for granted, what (other than more volunteers!) would make you feel happier about doing what you do? The football coach who clears up whilst people watch, would you ever just walk over to the watchers and say "I've done my bit, you need to clear up"and walk off. To the entitled parents who complain, does anyone say "I am a volunteer, and another parent. If you don't like it, do it yourself." I just wonder how we create a situation where those who want to volunteer feel supported and appreciated, and those who don't, don't feel got at for their decision. I don't know what to do with the entitled one's, other than ban their kids

Cork, if you run a group because your child wants to doba specific activity, that fall into the category of doing something for your own personal reasons. Your wouldn't be doing it for my benefit. Just as, when I volunteered at dc's school on a regular basis, I was doing it for my child. Any benefit to others was purely coincidental, so I didn't expect any other parent to feel gratitude for it.

People should have manners and buggering off without helping to clear up is just rude, as are parents being critical of something they don't want to help out with. However when it comes to volunteering to run things, do it if you want, or not if you don't, but don't make it a 'loaded' activity. You are not better people for having the type of personality that enjoys this stuff. You do it because you want to. People who don't are not obliged to, even if they have bucket loads of free time.

Rousette - sorry, Internet was slow this morning so didn't see many responses before I posted (I thought I had RTFT )

I'm much better now, thanks, and able to work part time but I really do need a lot of down time for my mental health so no volunteering. In fact, I've decided not to read any more threads about volunteering or SAHMs!

"People should have manners and buggering off without helping to clear up is just rude, as are parents being critical of something they don't want to help out with"

I think when many of us say "volunteering" what we mean is no more than helping to clear up or set out.......the 25% I identified don't tend to do even that...........

Cork, if you run a group because your child wants to do a specific activity, that fall into the category of doing something for your own personal reasons. Your wouldn't be doing it for my benefit

If your child gets to the activity too, then yes, it would also be for your benefit, as well as my own. I'm not going to run a brownie group or football squad of one, am I?

some people will go out of their way to be ungrateful.

I would think that your dp coaches because he wants to, that he enjoys it and it is his hobby

I would think the same.

But reading this thread I think that people have different opinions on volunteering. I see it as something people either do as a hobby or as a work substitute while they're unemployed or a SAHP. Some people seem to see it as a moral obligation.

I manage volunteers and I would hate it if any of my volunteers didn't enjoy it or felt they weren't getting any worthwhile work experience out of it and only carried on with it because they felt they had to. I also wouldn't want my children to attend activities run by disgruntled volunteers seething with resentment (not saying this applies to anyone on this thread).

I would much rather people didn't volunteer and activities didn't happen than people made themselves miserable doing it.

"part of my criteria for hiring someone is that they've volunteered in some substantial way in the past. The reason is that volunteers get things done while non-volunteers whine and complain and expect things to be handed to them"

I can only assume you have a candidate heavy, unskilled market from which to hire. Although your attitude sucks, if you are a desirable candidate in demand no one gives a shit about such friviolities

Don't blame you mutepoint ! Hope you continue to feel better and better