Interesting letter from a volunteer to non volunteers

[Narnia72]

Volunteering

I hope the link works. We often have discussions about "worthy" volunteers with regard to school activities, but this was a thought provoking read. It was timely for me as my son's football team is having to close the younger age group classes as there's no-one to coach (made up of volunteer coaches). It made me think about all the volunteers who give their time to run low cost groups for my kids; brownies, cubs, football, messy church, netball, youth drama are all run by volunteers. When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in. It's very much the same people, over and over again. Why is that?

It also reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a brown owl, who had been spoken to very rudely by a parent, complaining about the activities on offer, and why they didn't do more. When asked if she would help, this parent recoiled in horror and said "but I PAY you to do this for my kids". There's clearly a massive lack of understanding about what these roles are.

So, open to debate. Do your children benefit from activities run by volunteers? Do you value them? Do you volunteer yourself? If not, do you look to help in any way, either by donations to the group, or supporting fundraising events? Do you ever think to say thank you to the volunteers? This is not meant to be a goady post, I volunteer in a minor capacity at school, but although I do value what the external clubs do for my kids, I am guilty of taking the volunteers who run them very much for granted. I am going to say thanks to them all this week!

I'm trying to help the football team attract coaches (football sadly not something either me or DH are in any way skilled at), and have met with so much apathy and indifference, but also entitlement, as though the tiny sub they pay guarantees a 5 star service.

I know the letter writer is a bit sanctimonious, but thought there were some good points in and amongst. Thoughts?

Bertrand that's nonsensical

Most DC miss out on something at some point because their parents don't have time to accommodate it. It may not be strictly fair (though the child may get something else instead, eg more money earned to be spent on them, or a sibling, etc). But it's life.

So if you set up an activity and require parents to do a rota slot, yes some children would miss out because their parents couldn't commit to the rota. But that's no different to a child who misses out because their parent can't drop them off at that time, or can't afford the kit, or whatever.
You can't set up activities on the basis that you must make them accessible to all.

I agree with Aderyn- I would far rather any expectations on parents were laid out up front and at the start, so I can decide to commit or not commit, rather than a resentful leader who wants volunteers but shied away from setting that out as a requirement.

So the children whose parents have disabilities or who work nights or who have siblings with disabilities don't get to go to Scouts. When all it would take would be for a couple of the 25% to get their hands dirty occasionally.......

My parents did fuck all volunteer wise, but I joined a local volunteer emergency service group when I was 18, then it followed on after I had my daughter and she was Rainbow age. This lead me down the path to Girlguiding ! I'm now a Brownie Leader and the attitude from some parents makes me want to shoot them sometimes.

I work fulltime but Brownies takes so much more than the odd hour a week

Bertrand how about a statement along the lines of "Parents are expected to volunteer 2x a term, however if you really can't manage that, then give me a call and I'll see what I can do"

Then it's up to the leader to decide who to let off rota duties

Not ideal I know (some people will be put off by needing to spell out their circs) but better than the activity folding because the leader has had enough of doing it all themselves?

I am older and do volunteer but the problem imv is that people DO so much more stuff than in the past - eg have a caravan and go away whenever, there are elderly rellies to visit who might be the other end of the country, there are grandchildren to visit, or to help mind, there are a weeks hols a couple or 3 times a year, plus the odd weekend away. Let alone their own hobbies, maybe sports competitions that they've worked up to and walking the dog, or keeping on top of the garden in the summer.

Trying to commit to a regular weekly or monthly slot is quite a tie. My volunteering is usually flexible so I can fit it round things. But I know, as I try to arrange a monthly get together, myself that almost never does everyone make it, they're just too busy!

I'm pretty sure that most people are not going to discriminate against parents who have disabilities or whose dc have them, if they were unable to do their part of the rota. Those are people that most others would happily make exceptions for.
If you are unable to commit because of work, then that is unfortunate but such is life. As a kid, I missed things if my parents were on shift work. I don't feel particularly aggrieved - I just had to go to clubs that fit in with their work.

There would be something very wrong with a system where people with real reasons why they couldn't do something had to reveal private information because the ones who could but don't couldn't be arsed.....

My experience as a Brown Owl is that sometimes people complain in an aggressive way and then (once I've had a moan at home or a little cry etc) when they have it explained to them nicely they are a lot more reasonable. Most people are intrinsically pleasant; they just get buried under their own lives and issues.
If I ask for volunteers I get the same 3 parents time and again. If I set up a rota there are only a couple who don't turn up on their assigned day.

I do suffer from volunteer fatigue sometimes, and it really would be amazing if someone else volunteered to help without me having to ask, but I do understand the reticence.

In my experience all the PTA peeps and volunteers have at least part-time, if not full time jobs. If you want something done, ask a busy person.

I volunteer as after school football coach at my sons primary school, if I didn't then there would be no football. Most parents think I get paid and are surprised when they discover I give my time for free.
The school put a call out to over 200 parents asking for help, I was the only one to put my hand up and yet the majority of those parents are the ones who complain there are not enough clubs for their kids!

Every time there is a school disco, fayre, trip it is always the same small circle of parents who ensure these things go ahead. Parents moan about the lack of extra equipment or snazzy playground like other schools but do nothing to help raise funds to get these things.
It absolutely infuriates me.

I volunteer in a number of places.

It is quite usual for people to complain, often loudly and rudely, about things not going quick enough for their liking.
It is also quite usual for the same people to not want to take on any work themselves.

I have for the last 12 months operated a policy of asking the complainer to take some of the task at hand on when they complain. No-one has yet.

When things go smoothly and nice things happen there will often be people who want to stand up in the limelight. I am quite happy for that to happen. I am not precious about things, and continue to be involved whilst I feel I can make a positive change to the area where I live.

I did get quite depressed by people's responses and actions last year and did a CBT course which helped me enormously.

I avoid fatigue by doing something one year, but not the next. For the PTA, DH and I are regular ad hoc helpers with fetes, cake sales, donations etc.

I am currently about to start a community-based role. I will do one stint then probably stop for a while and do something else.

There is a lot of judgment, when you do step forward and when you don't, which you just have to shrug off. I do know that if people were kinder and more friendly to each other, there would be more and better volunteering.

Loopytiles (much earlier in this thread):
Volunteering= 'wife work'? Don't know where to start with this. Absolutely despicable. Thanks sister.

Myself and DH have volunteered since we were teenagers. I have given a huge amount of time to school and beavers and he gives a lot to time to scouting. We both also work (his is high pressure). We believe that if you can, you should give back and we are trying to set a good example of to our children to be involved in the community. There have been times when we have both felt undervalued but on the whole we feel that we have contributed time well.

I am hugely grateful to the people who run DS's scouts and the club where my 3 have learned to kayak and sail.

I don't volunteer, generally. We will all muck in with the litter picks in the play park across the way once a month, I'll happily deliver leaflets every so often, and because I've got the right skills (and because if necessary I can do it in the middle of the night) I'll write fundraising bids if they need them doing.

I don't volunteer any other way because I'm too unreliable and too tired as a classic sandwich generation carer, with a more-than-full-time job and variable mental health.

Most people who volunteer do it for themselves perhaps almost as much as for others, because it brings them happiness, connectedness, a sense of purpose, fun. All of which is great, they should. It's not all self-sacrifice.

The tone of that letter pisses me off massively.

Open letters usually make me cringe. That one is no exception.
I don't think its as simple as 'people who volunteer v people who don't'

There are some who will never but many who have or will at some point.
Its assumed that if you are not volunteering NOW you are not a volunteer.

I don't want to give my time for nothing at the moment. I work in a demanding job helping others and I am also a carer.
The very last thing I want to do is go and help other people in the little spare time I have. I like helping people, I just have a cut off point and I reached it a few years ago.

BUT I spent my twenties and thirties volunteering for charities and local groups and the kid's schools. I am pretty sure I am not the only 'non-volunteer' who has done their bit. Just because we don't say 'sorry, I don't want to be on the PTA because I did all that 15 years ago, your turn now'. I don't feel the need to justify why I don't go and do reading at school, run fetes and go swimming with the class.

Thank God for the swimming coaches and Brown Owls and all the lovely people who give their time. But that letter is presumptuous and self righteous and doesn't make me want to volunteer for anything.

And if people really don't want to, don't enjoy it and will never do it, that is up to them. People have their reasons.

LaChat I agree about your comment on busy people. Some of my friends work FT and are on PTA and do volunteer groups. They are like Miss Rabbit with the endless jobs, I don't know how they fit in all the home and family stuff.
One of my friends runs a Rainbows, the waiting list is 18 months. A mother got annoyed because by the time 18 months is up, her daughter will be too old to join. She had a go at my friend. She calmly said that there are enough girls on the list to make a whole new Rainbows group but no volunteers to run it...

I love all the BS that it is only people who are SAHM or part time workers who volunteer. I work full time and am main breadwinner in our family. But I'm on the PTA. And I help at events, do the occasional at-school event when I can. And I can honestly say that it is the same 10 parents I see at every fete, at every reading session, at every outing.

Similarly, our school asks for a small donation to help fund additional activities. Funnily enough, the parents who complain are ALSO the ones who have never turned up to volunteer at an event ever.

Some people are just entitled.

YY - MrsDV I did more when I was younger too. And will again if I ever get to retire/go part time.

And also for all PTA zealots out there.

If I was going to volunteer at the moment I'd volunteer for something that really needed doing, not raising money for our privileged little school to have even more nice things.

When my children were at Junior school I helped, with lots of other mums whenever we could, with paint pot washing, outings, helping with fetes etc. One or two mums were quite sneering at times and even said 'What do you want to help THEM for?' 'Them' being the teaching staff we assumed, and pointing out that we were trying to help the children get more out of school was met with a blank stare. They just didn't get it. It's so true; there are givers and takers, some give massively, the rest of us do what we can when we can, and then there are the takers, who have such a huge sense of entitlement and think that subs of about 50p a week should mean the volunteers take their children to Diisneyland for the half term holiday.

You can't set up activities on the basis that you must make them accessible to all

Yes, you can! I think that's at the very heart of scouting/guiding. While I do expect parents to help if they possibly can I would never make this a requirement of membership.

There are givers and taker, but there are also a lot of people in the middle doing their best, and you shouldn't judge.

Some people seem to love the idea that they are undervalued and that the non volunteers are selfish entitleds who despise them and their hard work.

It gives them purpose.

There are some who will never but many who have or will at some point.
Its assumed that if you are not volunteering NOW you are not a volunteer.

This is very true.
I still gnash my teeth at the memory of the new-to-the-PTA woman who gave me a lecture about not pulling my weight to help the school. My father had just died, I was a wreck.

I'm afraid I haven't read all of the posts, but am pretty sure that most of the time we have no idea what contributions people are making elsewhere or what pressures they are under elsewhere. E.g. maybe they don't volunteer at school but do volunteer at their other child's nursery, or volunteer for a charity, or have no time to spare but donate all they can to charity, or are a carer, or have their own health or personal problems you don't know about. I think what matters most is that we all try to express our thanks to the people who do volunteer in the communities we or our children are involved with. A little bit of appreciation goes such a long way.