Interesting letter from a volunteer to non volunteers

[Narnia72]

Volunteering

I hope the link works. We often have discussions about "worthy" volunteers with regard to school activities, but this was a thought provoking read. It was timely for me as my son's football team is having to close the younger age group classes as there's no-one to coach (made up of volunteer coaches). It made me think about all the volunteers who give their time to run low cost groups for my kids; brownies, cubs, football, messy church, netball, youth drama are all run by volunteers. When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in. It's very much the same people, over and over again. Why is that?

It also reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a brown owl, who had been spoken to very rudely by a parent, complaining about the activities on offer, and why they didn't do more. When asked if she would help, this parent recoiled in horror and said "but I PAY you to do this for my kids". There's clearly a massive lack of understanding about what these roles are.

So, open to debate. Do your children benefit from activities run by volunteers? Do you value them? Do you volunteer yourself? If not, do you look to help in any way, either by donations to the group, or supporting fundraising events? Do you ever think to say thank you to the volunteers? This is not meant to be a goady post, I volunteer in a minor capacity at school, but although I do value what the external clubs do for my kids, I am guilty of taking the volunteers who run them very much for granted. I am going to say thanks to them all this week!

I'm trying to help the football team attract coaches (football sadly not something either me or DH are in any way skilled at), and have met with so much apathy and indifference, but also entitlement, as though the tiny sub they pay guarantees a 5 star service.

I know the letter writer is a bit sanctimonious, but thought there were some good points in and amongst. Thoughts?

HicDraconis, but I would consider spending some evenings doing lots of baking a type of volunteering!

If that type of contribution isn't, then I don't see how I can -- I can really only do small things like that irregularly.

Of course baking cakes for cakes sales is volunteering.

It sounds as if some people think the only kind of volunteering that counts is actually running a Scout troop or something major like that. On what planet is giving up an evening to bake not volunteering??

If that type of contribution isn't, then I don't see how I can -- I can really only do small things like that irregularly

The small things count. Scout groups would struggle to run without the help that parents give - maybe only an hour or two each parent, but it all adds up. School fairs couldn't happen without parents who are willing to man a stall for an hour, or bake some cakes, or help tidy up after. Football coaches wouldn't feel so pissed off if parents mucked in and helped put goals away etc.

Of course there are people who give much more of their time in running groups, clubs, events etc. But the small things still count, and are very much appreciated by the people who run these things.

There are brilliant parents who quietly do the grunt work (clearing up, being supportive, providing cakes, not slagging off events). Without them nothing would really work and to me that is totally volunteering.

BeBeatrix, volunteering is only morally better if a person is doing it out of pure altruism. I'm sure that is the case for some people but plenty of others are doing it because they want to for their own reasons

There is no such thing as pure altruism, but what do peoples motivations matter in the end? If the food bank stays open, does it matter to the people who get the food why the people running it are doing it? No. But the food bank being open is better than the food bank not being open, and the world is a slightly better place thanks to those volunteers.

I don't understand why people need to go out of their way to dismiss people who do this stuff. They are doing a lot of good for society, their internal motivation is immaterial. Stop assessing the level of good and just be glad that someone does this stuff.

I don't volunteer. I have a 4 and 2 yo, 4yo has additional needs, both are shocking sleepers, DH and I work full time in demanding jobs. I have Fridays off work (I do FT hours in 4 days) but am looking after 2yo all day. Weekends we see the DC and do chores. I don't have any hobbies or do any exercise. I do not have the time or energy to take on other commitments. I'm absolutely happy to help tidy/supervise if I go along to something, but I don't want to commit to being a leader as I have no idea how I will feel on any given day - I'm frequently running on 4 hours broken sleep.

We earn a fair bit so donate a lot instead. That's how I'm best placed to contribute at the moment.

If you are a parent to preschoolers, work FT and still volunteer, my hat is off to you. But please don't make those of us who can't, feel guilty.

Practically every post on this thread has made it clear that there are plenty of people who can't. For a huge raft of reasons.

Cork, motivation only matters if, as a non volunteer, you are expected to muck in a do things that are not your choice, beyond what is reasonable in terms of manners (for ex clearing up the toys your child has played with, or the football equipment).

Like I said, do it if you get something from it, but don't guilt trip people who don't.

I wouldn't dream of guilt tripping anyone, I don't even talk about my own volunteer work.
The problem I have here is people going out of their way to be rude about people who do volunteer.

But in my 20 year experience, the huge majority don't even do the good manners bit.
Do you never think, even for a second "My child really enjoys doing this thing that's available because this person spends several hours a week providing it- I wonder if there's anything I could do to help now and then"?

motivation only matters if, as a non volunteer, you are expected to muck in a do things that are not your choice, beyond what is reasonable in terms of manners

Aderyn I'm genuinely interested to know then, am I being unreasonable because, as a cub leader, I do a rota for parents to help out at most two or three times a year at cub meetings. I have to do this, as we have two leaders and 30 cubs, we just can't run meetings without extra help. For instance, if we want to go out to play rounders in the evening, due to ratios I need 5 adults present.

So, yes, I do expect parents to muck in. Not least because it's their children who benefit from this. Of course if they can't make it for one reason or another, I am flexible, but most do attend when it's their turn on the rota.

Bertrand, I have helped out at brownies when asked and I used to do loads of school stuff. But, I was doing it for my child, not for any social responsibility reasons . If other people's dc benefitted it was a by product. For that reason it would never have occurred to me that other parents should be grateful or volunteer themselves, because I wasn't doing it for them.
There is no excuse for rudeness - everyone should help clear up after their dc.

What about the people who volunteer when it doesn't directly benefit themselves or their families?

Budgie, honestly I think that you need to be clear from the outset regarding expectations. If you said that their children can only attend if the parents are willing to commit to doing a share of the rota, they would have the choice to accept your terms or not take part. Your club would then be more of a collective effort and you would only have like minded parents so everyone would be happy.

Cork, I do agree that people who help out at food banks and man Samaritans helplines are doing good things for the community as a whole.
I kind of put them in a different category to people who, for example, join the pta for social reasons/because they think it will benefit their dc and then expect everyone else to be grateful for it.

"I kind of put them in a different category to people who, for example, join the pta for social reasons/because they think it will benefit their dc and then expect everyone else to be grateful for it."
Well, yes. So, presumably do all of us. How is that relevant to the thread?

If you said that their children can only attend if the parents are willing to commit to doing a share of the rota

While I can see your point, I would never say that, because some parents genuinely just can't help due to circumstances. Also, I wouldn't want children to miss out because some parents can't be bothered to help, it's frustrating but it's not the child's fault.

I don't put anyone into categories, I'm just glad they do it. Someone else running the PTA stuff means I don't have to, so why do I care why they do it? If its for the thanks, they can have mine for a start.

Sniggering about people being grateful to the pta. The reverse is true ime all you get for being on the pta from other parents is moaning and snidey comments

It's used in threads on here " oh you know the type, PTA mum" as shorthand for someone you think is bossy or taking over....but only taking over the things no other bugger will do!
People are horrible about volunteers. I don;t get it.

It is relevant Bertrand because this thread started off with a letter telling parents to volunteer more and be grateful!

"If you said that their children can only attend if the parents are willing to commit to doing a share of the rota"
But that would be outrageous. There are plenty of people who can't. Why should their children miss out?

It is not outrageous at all - most of us have probably said no to things our dc want because we couldn't manage it for whatever reason. It happens and you make it up in some other way. The parents who are unwilling/unable to take part have the choice to enrol in activities with paid staff and no parental obligation. If you don't make membership conditional then you end up with the same few volunteers who get pissed off at not getting enough help. The parents who don't help will make the assumption that you are doing X activity because you enjoy it and want to. And you are back to square one.
I just know that I would appreciate my obligations being laid out at the start, before I commit my child to a specific activity, rather than going ahead and finding our later that the person whose idea it was to start the group is pissed off and resentful.

The parents who are unwilling/unable to take part have the choice to enrol in activities with paid staff and no parental obligation

Not everywhere has many, if any, choices.

The parents who don't help will make the assumption that you are doing X activity because you enjoy it and want to

They could make that assumption, but many won't even think about it. They'll just take whats on offer because some other mug will do the work.

Anyway, this is going around in circles. It seems that some people want to justify not helping out, even though its not really necessary, and some people feel the need to be mean to those who do. Nobody has to help, there is no expectation from most people.

Just try and be nice to the people doing the stuff that benefits your community and society. Is that so hard?