Vaping around children?

[onemumtwocountries]

What's the general consensus? Just curious to hear your opinions. I'm fighting a constant battle with DH at the moment and I wonder if I'm being unreasonable.

Because it is impossible to prove that anything is "safe", even water will kill you if you drink enough of it!

All of the reputable studies to date have not shown vaping or vapour to be significantly harmful.

Yes but you have to drink water. You don't have to breathe someone else's decisions!

This article alone contains lots of conflicting views from experts, and a summary of stories. There's enough uncertainty to make me unhappy when it's unnecessary - people can simply keep it to themselves if they want to do it!

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/29/vaping-as-bad-for-your-heart-as-smoking-cigarettes-study-finds/amp/

why should I have to prove that it's harmful?

I haven't asked you to do that, I have asked you to show that anything (anything at all) has been proven safe. A poster up-thread put vaping in the same sort of category of risk as other everyday household chemicals. I'd agree with that. Have all your household chemicals been proven safe?

It's for the vaping industry to prove it's safe. And let's face it, their research isn't exactly disinterested, is it?

You haven't looked at the research that is posted on the UK govt. website have you? You haven't even properly read the BHF statement you posted. You haven't RTFT so you haven't read the statement posted here, signed by a fuck ton of public health orgs.

I understand your mistrust of research by the vaping industry. Until about 2014 all of PH thought the vaping industry was a cunning offshoot of Big Tobacco. It's not, it's mostly SME run by ex-smokers who want nothing to do with the tobacco industry and are sick to death of smokers (AKA human beings) being collateral damage in the war between Public Health and Big Tobacco. Vapers have crowdfunded their own research because they care about their health (weird, huh?) and have developed British Standards for the industry (they didn't have to, they just care about health - weird, huh?)

I'm not asking you to trust research that comes from the vaping industry though, I'm asking you to properly read stuff on the govt. website and a host of other properly reputable sources, including the one you provided.

But pencils, why should I??? I'm not the one trying to justify something that other people who don't do it don't trust.

I don't care what some of the research says. I don't choose to do something unnecessary that may or may not be safe! Even 5% problems compared to cigarettes is 5% more than I want. As you have pointed out, there's enough risk on the essentials like air and food.

And I think we read that BHF extract v differently as you seem to think it promotes vaping. Yes, for ex smokers. Not for non smokers. I focussed on the bit about carcinogens and it not being harm free, thanks. "Less harmful than cigarettes", even much less harmful than cigarettes, is still worse than no harm at all in my book.

Yay, Telegraph! We're back to page 2! RTFT FFS!

Here is a sensible discussion of the findings that were presented at the European Society for Cardiology conference. If you're interested, which you are clearly not.

This: All those nasty carcinogens really must be getting to your brain! is a personal attack. I'm not reporting it though, I think it should stay there so people can see what you think and how out of arguments you are.

Please do. So that they can also see that it was in response to your unwanted and unwarranted comments on my relationship and child. Now that's a personal attack.

Not for non smokers.

WTF Nobody has ever advocated that never-smokers start vaping. What fucking planet are you on? Vapers are almost without exception either former smokers who have managed to quit smoking via vaping and are now vaping to prevent relapse, or current smokers who are cutting down (many with the aim of quitting altogether).

why should I???

Personally I don't give the tiniest shit whether you read anything about vaping at all. It's not about you. I care if you spread ill-informed scaremongering bullshit though because that will put smokers off switching and if they carry on smoking half of them will die, not before harming the health of many other people around them.

As you have pointed out, there's enough risk on the essentials like air and food.

I do hope you have cut out anything non-essential in your life. You can never be too careful!

are you actually reading the words on the screen?! This really doesn't bode well for all that research you claim to have done!

I am talking about a situation where A NON VAPER HAS TO INHALE VAPE SMOKE because the vaper thinks it's fine. Such as a child with a vaping parent, which is what the OP was talking about in the first place. That is what I object to.

I am not telling people not to vape, so stop projecting your agenda where it has no place. I am simply saying I do not want you vaping near me indoors, or near my child. In your own space, or outside, you can do what you like. How is that so hard to understand?

See, I don't give a flying feck what you do to yourself. But you seem to think that other people should happily take a risk so that YOU can vape, because YOU think that there is no risk. And that attitude I dislike.

And yes, I know it's not actual smoke. Whatever you want to call it, I don't want to breathe it!

From the OPs later post I read "he took a puff before he got in the car" and the smell bothered her
That, I don't see as any problem whatsoever because he's not actually in the car using it or with the windows shut etc etc. It's probably safer than a car engine running next to the car
The smell bothering could be the same as getting a waft of perfume as in you're not directly next to it if that makes sense. It's not lingering causing damage

You're on MN. If there are signs in your posts that your relationship is a bit shit people will point it out. I stand by my comments. Wanting to change the one you're with is a sign of a not great relationship, especially if it's something you knew about him when you got together. Been there, done that ...

You are being PFB if you try to make your baby's life 'harm free'. There's nothing wrong with that (except it will drive you round the twist). We've all been there! They grow up though in a world that is full of all sorts of harms, large and small, and they have to learn to assess risk in a sensible fashion if they are to survive and flourish. The lucky ones have parents who can help them do that because they have a reasonable grasp of risk themselves.

These are not personal attacks, they are comments on the content of your posts.

Suggesting I might not be thinking clearly because I vape and therefore my brain is full of toxic chemicals is a personal attack and bears no relation to the content of my posts.

Well mine vapes in the car :(

He does try not to do it in front of DD, but he does do it in the car because she's not old enough to notice yet. Windows up if we're on the motorway, the works.

Because he is convinced it's safe.

To be fair and give him credit - and I do, in real life! - he has worked his way down to the very lowest nicotine content since I've known him. But that last bit he is clinging onto and it worries me a lot. For him as well as for DD - he may well be right, but what if he isn't? I don't want to lose him to something nasty for something so unnecessary!

Yeah, I'll bear your comments about my "shit" relationship in mind, pencils, esp as we're off to buy an engagement ring tomorrow morning

you're really projecting and overreaching there. You cannot possibly read anything meaningful into a couple of frustrated posts on one topic out of an entire relationship, you know. Or maybe you don't!

I'm torn. Not because I think it's dangerous but I can get how it might be irritating if you don't vape (I always have my car window slightly open even on the motorway)

I don't think it's great to vape in an enclosed space with someone who has/says it irritates them (because of smell/clouds etc) but because it's not really courteous

Pencil, I fear you are urinating in a very strong breeze. The obtuse force is strong in that one. You're my hero though. Patience of a fucking saint.

Frankly, I'd rather have urine on a strong breeze than vape. At least it's natural, is definitely not an irritant or carcinogen, and doesn't stink of fake sweet nastiness!

Oh ffs.

Pencils is always amazing on these threads. She has the evidence to back up what she claims which is always helpful.

Tough luck if you don't want to breath a bit of vape Apple. I don't want to breathe car fumes, peoples BO, people's shit smelling perfume. But such is life. People just have to deal with it. It's saving my life, I can run, I can lay down without wheezing and best of all? My children have a much lower chance of watching me die from cancer like they did their father. People not liking the smell or breathing in 'clouds' for a few seconds is no concern of mine.

However of course I would respect people's wishes in their houses and I always ask first.

And it is very very rare teens will start smoking because they vape. For one, vaping is nicer and cheaper than smoking. If teens are vaping and then moving to smoking they are the teens who would have smoked no matter what, vape or not. Why the hell would they move to something more expensive and gross tasting?

Personally I don't give the tiniest shit whether you read anything about vaping at all. It's not about you. I care if you spread ill-informed scaremongering bullshit though because that will put smokers off switching and if they carry on smoking half of them will die, not before harming the health of many other people around them.

Well said. It's such a shame people had to turn their hatred against smoking to vaping as well. They weren't happy with smokers, we ended up feeling like social pariahs and that was somewhat understandable as it was harming them. Now we are heading towards social pariahs status with vaping when it isn't harming them.

Frankly, I'd rather have urine on a strong breeze than vape. At least it's natural, is definitely not an irritant or carcinogen, and doesn't stink of fake sweet nastiness!

Urine smells better than my cinnamon flavoured juice which barely smells at all? I have heard it all now

How do you cope with people who wear sweet smelling perfumes? Would you prefer people to smell of pee instead?

Thanks for the laugh though.

Well, I don't find pencils' points remotely convincing. She has an agenda to justify her own choices, and that's how it comes across to me, I'm afraid.

U2 - fair enough with people's houses. But do you think you should be able to vape in offices? In supermarkets or other shops? In pubs? Or are you happy that the owners make the decisions there? And why do so many of them ban it? Genuine questions, not being snarky.

I wasn't really being serious about the piss, but now you come to mention it, fuck yes it might well be preferable to a lot of aftershaves and perfumes.

Gosh good luck with your engagement Apple. I'm sincere in what I say although I appreciate it can't be easy to hear. You shouldn't be getting together with someone if there is something about them you hate this much.

If you did manage to get him to quit vaping because you don't like it he would probably end up resenting you and would be quite likely to relapse to actual smoking at some point.

I don't want to lose him to something nasty for something so unnecessary!

If it's keeping him off smoking it is totally necessary.

Oh I am not surprised you don't find her convincing. You haven't even read any of her links properly have you? You want to stick to your opinion and that is that.

I would love to be able to vape in a pub but that's about it. The reason why so many ban them? Well for a variety of reasons I expect. As I said earlier, I know many landlords banned them because stupid people moaned that we were smoking so it was easier just to ban it. Too many people can't separate vaping from smoking and those who smoke weren't too impressed that they had to go outside while we didn't have to. Even though the two aren't comparable.

Yes I have an agenda. My agenda is to help smokers quit and live longer, healthier lives and improve the health of those around them. Do you have a problem with that?

It's a fantastic agenda Pencils and I appreciate all the time you have put in to helping others here.