Kids, work, everything is my fault.

[Putthatonyourneedles]

Why is everything my fault? Why is it dumped on me. I have dd12 and two lo under 5, work nights full time whilst juggling depression and Dh works full time.

I had postnatal depression with dd12. It has strained our relationship, she has a brilliant bond with Dh (her dad) but as a result social services have been in and out of our lives for a number of years particularly when I've had bad periods of mental health and now this latest social worker has declared that everything is due to me.

In the last year social services have started to blame everything on me. Dd12 was caught shoplifting on cctv on numerous occasions on the way to and from school (banned from two shops now) she denied it even when told that we had evidence of it. The police came into school and spoke to her about it, all was fine with no more reports of shop lifting or finding items that we hadn't bought in the house.

She won't brush her teeth properly (she will even lie and just wet the toothbrush but not actually use it)she wont brush her hair thoroughly or take any pride in her appearance despite me letting her choose her hair bobbles and bits. She won't wash properly, she just stands in the bathroom running the shower whilst she isnt in it and then says that she is done or she just stands there with the water pouring over her but not actually washing herself with bubbles (which she chooses)

She won't bring her laundry down to be washed or if she does it will only be half the wash basket. She has one chore per day ie Wednesday is her laundry day, Friday she has to put her clothes away etc. Not major huge chores. Small responsibilities for herself. One month after nagging her constantly about uniform I stopped nagging her and asked once for her to bring her uniform to be washed on her wash day and I didn't count the shirts into the machine, as instructed by the social worker to "give dd12 a rest from being nagged" in the end she ended up going to school in dirty uniform.

When challenged or "nagged" about anything she automatically defaults to "I don't know" or just grunts and whines.

She started to forge my signature in her homework diary, she will often be late to school or very late home.

My lo will clean their teeth, put their shoes away and help with chores occasionally.

I don't know what to do next or how to sort this out? I'm tired of being blamed for a 12yo who wont wash properly. What am I supposed to? Wash her like a baby?

We have tried positive reinforcement with pocket money and items, tried negative such as taking away her kindle tablet until she completes her chore or co operates with us. Everything goes fine until we give her the tablet back and then the behaviour reverts right back to before.

I think it would be very helpful for her to speak to someone from CAMHS or a counsellor from school maybe, because at the moment it's hard for you to determine the reason behind her lack of self care. It could be that she's depressed, or taking out angry feelings on herself, or that she is genuniely not bothering for a different reason. They would each need a different approach.

In any case, as others have said, make her feel cherished. Even if it comes across like she's not enjoying spending time with you, deep down I think she'll be appreciating it a lot. I say this from my experiences at that age! You don't need to go out if you don't have the time - you could do some girly stuff at home like pampering, or play a board game, or watch a film and chat about it, whatever you think she would like. Don't be discouraged if she's not enthusiastic - keep at it anyway.

As I have said in previous posts she used to brush her teeth no problems
She will do her whole routine of wash,brush hair,clean teeth etc until she gets the tablet back which demonstrates that she is capable and willing when it suits her for example when it was her friends birthday she was up, dressed teeth clean no issues.

I have said that ss were involved and it seems that you want exact reasons so

1. Severe postnatal depression when dd was born plus historic family abuse towards me and my mother being involved heavily in my pregnancy made it so that ss were automatically involved. They closed the case once dh was confirmed as 'the main parent' and we were no longer living at my mother's.
2. They came back when I had issues at work along with other things my mental health took a huge hit and I was in and out of hospital. They left once I was stable.
3. When the youngest was born I was diagnosed with ptsd and as a precaution ss were involved as a preventative measure.
4. Ss received a referral when the shop lifting was spotted and looking disheveled at school.

We have done the task/routine lists he follows it for a week or until she gets bored.

The not washing thing is not optional- I stopped /nagging/encouraging her,or how ever you want to word it, so she went to school without a shower, without cleaning her teeth and surprise surprise ss were sent a referral.

Rainbows- no where have I blamed her for me working nights. Nowhere have I blamed her for my mental health(I have tried to hide it as much as possible from her to the point where the receptionist would watch her in the waiting room whilst I talked to the gp because she doesn't need to hear it)

Nor have I said that she made me have two more children, what a stupid comment. Me and dh chose to wait to have dd2, to try to get me in a better place mentally, and that worked until i became ill again. Dd3 was a contraception failure but we coped with that. If you took away the extra nagging and the associated stress that goes alongside that then things would be better.

Yes I want a better relationship but what do I do when she won't spend time with me? I try to get into things that I know she likes for example guitar. I offered to get her music lessons as I cannot play properly any more due to carpal tunnel. I have dug out books and videos to help her learn. To a pp I'm not taking about her sitting there for hours playing scales and chord progressions but in order to be able to play the music that she wants to then she needs to learn the chords and the fingerings to make the music.

I physically cannot make her clean her teeth and wash so people don't want to spend time with her

Yes I am angry, sad disappointed but angry. Angry at the fact that she can be top of her class in so many subjects but she cannot grasp that she has to clean her teeth.

So if removing the tablet works as you said i your last post why not just continue with that?

I get the impression that you are angry at having to parent her. Your posts read like you just want her to do it herself with zero parenting from you or her dad. That clearly wont happen so I dont understand why you are unable to accept she needs more hands on parenting.

You said dad has gone back to work full time could this be the reason her behaviour has become worse? Change affects children differently.

It's not about learning instruments etc just spend time every day chatting to her, make her fave dinner with her, watch a film , give her compliments especially when she does wash properly. She does sound depressed and is neglecting her basic needs. My dd never really wants to go out with me (unless I was taking her clothes shopping which I can rarely afford) but we watch crap tv together and chat over dinner , I offer for her to do various activities with me but she mostly says no .

I think the anger you have is perpetuating her behaviour.

Does this statement make any sense?

She's angry, you are angry. Both angry. She isn't getting what she needs or wants from you. You aren't getting what you are asking for from her. Neither can understand each other.

To some extent this is parenting a teenager, but please let me ask you, when did you last laugh wth her? Hug her? Be silly and have fun together? 12 is still a child. 12 is not a young adult. We expect a lot from 12yo who look like teenagers when they aren't yet.

Reconnecting with her emotionally could go a long way to making drastic changes to your relationship.

Sookie- that blasted tablet is the one thing that she appears to cares about, the only thing that she consistently keeps up with. I am angry that at 12 she cannot keep up with basic tasks. I don't want to take it away as she draws and talks to her friends through her tablet.

Desperate- ive already said she doesn't want to do anything with me. She chooses meals for the weekly menu but doesn't want to help prep them

You are making a lot of excuses. People have already suggested swimming for instance and you said you have no time. So your activities are limited to things that fit in your hectic lifestyle which doesn't make her feel very special or important.

The tablet is her way of escaping I imagine. Show me a child who wouldn't rather be watching crap on YouTube than with their parent 99% of the time, but it depends what quality activities are on offer. Making dinner with mum vs playing on a tablet?

Most pre-teens/teenagers are obsessed with their tablets/iPods/laptops/phones. It's normal, and probably gives her some peace and quiet away from her younger siblings.

If she cares about it that much, use it to your advantage. No tablet until you've showered, washed your hair and brushed your teeth every day. It's not punishing her to restrict her access to technology - it's parenting.

Yes, she might sulk and throw a strop but she's shown in the past that she's capable of doing these tasks, so if taking away her tablet means she does those things everyday, then that's what you need to do. No, it's not ideal, and yes, she should be doing those things anyway, but 12yo's are naturally stubborn, obstructive and lazy, so you need to give a gentle shove in the right direction sometimes :)

But I'm sure if you showed an interest in a series she liked you could watch together. I begrudgingly watch bloody hollyoaks every night ! MY dd is on her phone 24/7 so I know it's difficult. What is she stealing?

Yes you need to make sure they are ready for her. I know you feel she is older, but a 12 year old is very immature still.

My child 14 has outbursts when you try to get her to bring the washing down. What you describe is not unusual.

A couple of years ago I had trouble to get her to shower. My friend says her son was the same. It is normal. Try to gently persuade. She will make her own decision in the end to keep clean. She will not want to be dirty. I suspect the showering thing will change within a year or two

Don't let the bastards get you down (social worker) her attitude will not be helping you if you are depressed it will only make matters worse.

Sometimes when you are depressed it is easier just to do everything than to deal with the answering back from a tween. This promotes quite a lazy attitude in kids with a depressed parent at times and when you do insist she does something it probably comes as a complete shock. Enough for her to moan at the social worker for your "nagging". I suspect the involvement of a third party to run you down will not help.

I would be very worried about the shoplifting though.

Sookie- that blasted tablet is the one thing that she appears to cares about,

Then that is what you use to encourage her to wash!
I don't understand your issue.
You just keep making excuses but yet you are doing nothing to solve the problem

Sorry but you are very frustrating. Niether of you appear to want to parent her and instead complain she is making you ill, takes up your time and prefer to stamp your feet like toddlers.

Don't let the bastards get you down

OP you seem so angry with your little girl for being... well an unhappy little girl. Is it any wonder she doesn't want to spend time with you if she can feel the anger radiating off you? (We can all see it in your posts- so will she). Do you think she feels as if you love her younger siblings and don't love her? Or at least love them more than her? It seems as if you have much more time for them. I understand they are younger so more obviously need you but your 12 year old needs you just as much.

She is using the only weapons she has to try and wound you because of the suffering she is feeling herself.

I understand how frustrating it is and how angry it makes you, but, as a wise old person once said to me when my dc were small and driving me nuts, "Who is the parent?"

I think family therapy might help, it might give all of you to communicate and build better bonds.

We have done the task/routine lists he follows it for a week or until she gets bored.

That why I said routines take work - you do have to remind children what they are and enforce them. It takes a long time to get routines as habit.

This is a good guide - looking for setting up habit and making them routine charlesduhigg.com/how-habits-work/.

I still find one of mine will have bad day - forget they need to eat breakfast, get dressed or get dressed for school - they need reminding. That with a list pinned to the wall and I or DH or even siblings have to step in with verbal reminders.

The cues for my children and teeth is getting ready to leave house so weekends and some parts of the holiday when we aren't going out they miss the cue and need more reminders than usual. They do support work in the morning and have for years - get up, eat breakfast get dressed do some work - they're usually quite good but when it's stuff they don't want to do they will often make out it's the first time they've every been asked and how unreasonable it is to ask them to do that.

My own parents spent first years of secondary - insisting I started homework at a set time. Next few years there were constant reminders - when I left for Uni I automatically started studying in the evenings at this time.

My DH used to forget quiet often his lanyard and pass - they now a hook at visual height right by door - and I remind him and eldest DD to put their passes on those hooks when I notice they've stopped but usually they put them on when they come through the door and they see it before leaving house so forget them much less.

By all means sit down with your other half and your DD and work out a workable routine - but the adults in the house are going to have to be the ones who make sure it stuck too - and keep doing it because all kind of things can throw them off - school holidays changes on work patterns.

It takes effort but longer term makes life easier.

Give her a time to be in the shower and reminder her she need to be in at that time- if she takes too long - set a timer so she knows when to get out. If reminder are too much mental work - set alarms at set times on your phone for every morning - and have a list pinned to the fridge door. Then shout out - 8.05 alarm and read off what that means - build in second alarms if needed.

I've spent half the school year remaining my eldest what time she need to be ready to leave the house by - she has just finally internalised that and doesn't need the reminder any more.

The reward part is obvious - if she gets ready on time she has time for her tablet.

She can't do what you want currently - so work towards helping her get there by making it easier for her.

I do find it hard with three to spend time will all of them - but they do often just like to hang out - so watch TV with me - or just pottering round the kitchen when I'm doing stuff - they may or may not want to help. They seem to just like talking to me or being around me or their DH so a set activity every week might not be necessary.

SoothesSocks there was one point in my life where I would have taken the same view.

it is possibe that she is too scared to if social services are involved. They can say she is using negative parenting techniques. Children are often capable of using a social worker to get their way and by the social worker pandering to them and being disrespectful to the parents reinforces the childs complete disrespect towards a parent and makes the behaviour worse. It further inflates the ego of the social worker to see this happen.

I have never been on the receiving end of them as a service user, but through previous work I have seen that parents can often do no right in these situations.

I hope you get a new social worker soon.

You could try getting your social worker to put what she wants you to do in writing and following it to the letter, but that may only make matters worse for you... In my experience they really hate to put things in writing. It means they can not go back on what they have said. Be careful though you do not want them to think you are "disengaging" if you ask them to do that. I have seen the term "disengage" used to terrible effect. They may accuse you of being "hostile" too even for a small action such as asking for them to write it down.

Also one thing I have learnt with teens is to move on from the bad day.
Don't wake up the next day assuming that one will be bad too. Or bring up how bad the day before was as a reminder, because all this does is remind them that they are 'bad'.
We might have one dreadful one but then I always go in before bed/text them at lunch (or they text me) about how I would like to just move on from it - apologies all round. New chapter, start again, move on.

SoothesSocks

Do you mean me?

I dont think your negative comments about SS are very helpful tbh. They seem to be the only agency that care enough about this family to be involved and I am sure in a pp the OP said they were nice and helpful.

Sorry you had a bad experience but that does not mean your experience is everyone elses.

I agree kikik

Also one thing I have learnt with teens is to move on from the bad day

Good advice.

I can have a really shit morning - and have expectation evening will be same yet when they get home they are in a completely different mood and if I don't let the morning go I can be the one to sour the mood and make the evening hard for everyone.

I have not had a bad experience but have witnessed many

I like to think of them as caring too, but it is a position which attracts many bad eggs imho.

Us all forgiving each other is very bonding actually, don't know if that's how it should be but.... I will usually say ok look I am sorry for getting cross at you, then DD's will say 'actually some of it was my fault...' and then we can laugh it off and usually results in a nicer period of time... one thing that was short on the ground in my childhood was forgiveness, it's a powerful emotion, children also find it hard to 'forgive and forget' if they don't experience it from adults, they more likely to stand their stubborn ground.

A lot of what Kiki says is true.

Do the best you can with keeping the house nice and doing the washing even if your daughter is being lazy for now. Tell the social worker that you are encouraging her to put her washing in the basket and giving her small rewards for doing so.

Gently encourage her to wash she is going to want to at some point, but get her batiste dry shampoo and face wipes so she doesn't look gross when she refuses. I don't know what I would do about the teeth. Do not mention that she does not bath and tell the sw it is getting better, but there are improvement to be made and you think it is just a phase.

The shoplifting is a huge concern as is staying out after school and you not knowing where she is.

Could you arrange fun things for after school, walks, swimming, making jewelerry. I don't think you need to do this every day, but just a couple of fixed days that do not change even if you feel exhausted or rubbish. Never use removal of it as punishment or getting it as reward. This will be a way of keeping the relationship strong even when things are difficult. It will build her trust.

Might be a bit old for her, but my daughter loves the hunger games and the maze runner series.

So if taking the tablet works don't let her have it until she's done her basics. Get up, shower, hair, teeth, tablet. If she won't remind again after school. It's her choice as to whether she gets it for the day/evening. I can't see what the issue is??? It's the most simple solution but you don't want to do it basically. No one can help you when you won't even help yourself.