Kids, work, everything is my fault.

[Putthatonyourneedles]

Why is everything my fault? Why is it dumped on me. I have dd12 and two lo under 5, work nights full time whilst juggling depression and Dh works full time.

I had postnatal depression with dd12. It has strained our relationship, she has a brilliant bond with Dh (her dad) but as a result social services have been in and out of our lives for a number of years particularly when I've had bad periods of mental health and now this latest social worker has declared that everything is due to me.

In the last year social services have started to blame everything on me. Dd12 was caught shoplifting on cctv on numerous occasions on the way to and from school (banned from two shops now) she denied it even when told that we had evidence of it. The police came into school and spoke to her about it, all was fine with no more reports of shop lifting or finding items that we hadn't bought in the house.

She won't brush her teeth properly (she will even lie and just wet the toothbrush but not actually use it)she wont brush her hair thoroughly or take any pride in her appearance despite me letting her choose her hair bobbles and bits. She won't wash properly, she just stands in the bathroom running the shower whilst she isnt in it and then says that she is done or she just stands there with the water pouring over her but not actually washing herself with bubbles (which she chooses)

She won't bring her laundry down to be washed or if she does it will only be half the wash basket. She has one chore per day ie Wednesday is her laundry day, Friday she has to put her clothes away etc. Not major huge chores. Small responsibilities for herself. One month after nagging her constantly about uniform I stopped nagging her and asked once for her to bring her uniform to be washed on her wash day and I didn't count the shirts into the machine, as instructed by the social worker to "give dd12 a rest from being nagged" in the end she ended up going to school in dirty uniform.

When challenged or "nagged" about anything she automatically defaults to "I don't know" or just grunts and whines.

She started to forge my signature in her homework diary, she will often be late to school or very late home.

My lo will clean their teeth, put their shoes away and help with chores occasionally.

I don't know what to do next or how to sort this out? I'm tired of being blamed for a 12yo who wont wash properly. What am I supposed to? Wash her like a baby?

We have tried positive reinforcement with pocket money and items, tried negative such as taking away her kindle tablet until she completes her chore or co operates with us. Everything goes fine until we give her the tablet back and then the behaviour reverts right back to before.

I agree that your suggestions to her of doing things together could be making things worse; they are not fun enjoyable tasks for her, they are helping you. There's work you could do there that gives you time out from housework and toddlers. I would leave DH in charge on your next weekend off and take a couple of hours doing whatever DD wants - but you would like her to have a nice shower before you leave. Compromise

I understand totally when you say there is a lack of support for you and your MH its a sad but true fact.
So how about some support for your DD?

Its clear this situation is having a negative affect on you all but instead of sitting back and blaming the child, your mother, SS you need to start working on solutions. Otherwise your daughter will have a similar upbringing to you

I feel very sorry for you, this isn't normal behaviour for a 12 year old. I have a 9 & 11 year old boys and they get themselves ready every single morning, they make their own pack lunches, get breakfast and get ready for school.
They also come home empty dishwasher, shower, tidy their rooms and being dirty washing down to be washed. I don't think you are being unreasonable in expectin that to be done by a 12 year old.
I think you may need some tough love, explain to her the children's services and school are involved because it's not normal behaviour. Work out a plan with her about how your going to tackle it. Maybe every Friday night she agrees she brings all the dirty washing down. Get the little ones involved as well - start them young!!

It is relatively normal behaviour for 12yo's especially girls. They can tend to be a bit gross and messy. As multiple people on here who have attested to this also. My DD's have been gross at that age, bad hair, manky nails, lack of washing and grossness bedrooms and laundry.

You have boys who aren't 12 although I appreciate that you think it's helpful to make this the 12yo's problem to sort out

Your DD sounds so, so sad and unloved.

It sounds like, with the historic SS involvement, that she's had a very difficult childhood and not the happiest home life. That's not a judgement - just looking at things objectively.

And now, at only 12, she seems to have a rather lonely home life where no one waves her off to school or greets her at home. She's ignored in favour of her younger siblings even though she's screaming out for attention by ignoring her personal hygiene. And then there are the attachment issues between the two of you, thanks to the PND.

I think she could do with CAMHS involvement/counselling.

And whoever mentioned that she needs to feel cherished, that's exactly it. And I know that no one can wave a magic wand and transform your relationship into a harmonious, loving one, but you need to start somewhere.

Are your DH's family about nearby at all? If yes, could they help out a bit?

So when do we start to make children accept some responsibility for their behaviour?
It's not all down to OP who is clearly struggling and yet you all pile in and say she is a terrible mother.

Child needs some support I completely agree but she is old enough to understand consequences of not doing stuff. I.e. You don't wash you will smell. And a gentle conversation to try and get to bottom of it and make some changes is not a bad thing.

"I think you may need some tough love, explain to her the children's services and school are involved because it's not normal behaviour""

I would hope that the CIN plan would be upped to a CP, if the OP was to suggest that the DDs behaviour is what has started SS involvement.

""So when do we start to make children accept some responsibility for their behaviour?""

The Family aren't at that stage yet.

It is possible that the DD is depressed, as well as lots of other issues.

The OP has been given advice by the Professionals that know the whole family and the background.

Sometimes though, when a child is so overwhelmed, they need a break from the norm.....they need to heal and letting them relax and rest and taking off the pressure can make all the difference. Whilst it may not seem like she has many chores etc, if there is little else that she enjoys at the moment, taking away the chores, might mean she feels more able to talk to her mum, read a book, have a nice bath. If she feels resentful of the time she doesn't have with her family (that's only an example), then giving her time to look after herself might be helpful.

Nobody has called her a terrible mother!

Its ok saying children should accept responsibility but what about the adults in all this? Do they not have a responsibility to ALL of the children?

This 12 yo is not been actively parented. The only activities she seems to be asked to do are house chores

When people are unhappy they neglect themselves and their surroundings. This child needs help and support not to be shouted at and ignored.

Sadly it looks like this circle will continue on to the next generation and this poor girl may end up suffering later in life just like the OP and transferring that on to her child

It's got to be a balance between children being more responsible and adults recognising their role in their expectations. A child who is given chores but needs attention and to feel wanted and cherished isn't going to see the point of doing the chores. This is not important to them because they feel unimportant.
Chores only tend to work well in a team spirit environment.

Chores are an expectation and contribution to your family.
Why would a child want to contribute when they feel they aren't part of the team?

It's not all down to OP who is clearly struggling and yet you all pile in and say she is a terrible mother.

I don't think she is a terrible mother.

I think 12 is a difficult age - and she has the added problems of poor mental health and additional scrutiny.

My eldest is 11 - with secondary school there have been big changes and she boundary testing as well - and clearly demonstrating a need for more parental affections and time.

I don't think OP expectations are unreasonable as such - more a work in progress at the minute.

I still have to remind and manage my 11 year old and talking to other parents in her year with 11 and 12 year olds that's not unusual - they not completely independent and capable of sorting everything out themselves more working towards that goal. Which means they need reminding - or tasks still being done for them or partially done.

She is a struggling mother not a terrible mother.

The trouble is- I read the OP's posts and I can hear the ANGER in them, and how tense she must be at home. And it reminds me so much of my mother when she was depressed, and I was a similar age.

I was actually absolutely terrified - of my mother's illness, the change in her personality, the atmosphere at home- and this manifested as 'laziness/ not caring/ dumb insolence'.

Having just read your last post I think your DH should be the one ensuring that your dd washes and does her chores as he has the stronger relationship with her. You should be just concentrate on all the other stuff and building a good relationship with your dd.

I was a single mother and hopeless at getting my dd to help with housework. By the time she was twelve I gave up asking her. There was no mumsnet at the time. And I let her down in that respect but it wasn't the end of the world.

Op, I feel for you so much.

My dd was similar. We were referred to CAMHS who have helped so much.

They taught her (and us) coping techniques. Fair enough she didn't have the aversion to washing, but the temper was awful, laziness etc..

Turns out she has sensory issues we didn't realise. ASD was ruled out (after almost a year of appointments) but it's notoriously difficult to diagnose in girls.

I know she's 12 but is there an alternative to an award chart might work for her?

Are you afraid of the younger ones picking up on her behaviour? My ds who is three years younger used to crouch in a corner when dd kicked off - he ate his nails to the quick, he sucked the skin around his fingers. It was horrendous.

Dd is 15 now & much better. She has matured, realised we're not her enemies, she doesn't seem to have the same level of anger as before, we praise her lots when she does things.

But her room still looks like a bomb exploded in it - it's her room, I close the door so I don't see it. Pick your battles.

I'm wishing you lots of support.

I feel for both you and your daughter.
My mother had pnd after I was born (I never knew this until my mid twenties) and we have never had a close bond.
I wish, WISH that she had reached out for help as you are doing. You are a good mum.
I was the same as your daughter re washing, tooth brushing. Just wouldnt do it and wasnt encouraged. My mum gave up asking and this reinforced my belief that I wasn't worth the bother. Peer pressure was all that worked.
I took over doing my own laundry at 14 or so because I never had clean clothes.
What about making her up a little toiletry bag with some nice lotions and potions, a razor, and a little note telling her she is beautiful and you love her?
Also, to help her cope with the hormones could you get her an evening primrose supplement?
I truly feel for you but I see so much of myself in your daughter. Please please stick with it. She needs her mum.

This sounds like my ds, he has autism though. Sounds to me like her Practical Planning skills i.e. now and what next are under developed - not necessarily your fault. There are apps you can get where you list tasks and routines and then they flash up in order. Or you can make lists that you could pin up on her wall or on the back of the door e.g. HAVE YOU DONE? then a list of required tasks. We have morning lists, afternoon lists and evening lists so all I have to say is "have you checked the list?" or "make sure you do your list ds".

I remember scrubbing the grout in the tiles in the bathroom for two minutes instead of my teeth.... my dad would still be in bed & vouch that he heard me brushing my teeth......

OP you are clearly trying very hard, but as things are not working, you need to try something different. There's been lots of good advice on here that you could try. Open your mind and try something new rather than just declaring that nothing will work. Good luck!

The OP sounds just like my mum - depressed, miserable, and focussing her anger on a single child rather than making any effort to change things. She isn't interested in answers or solutions. Pity.

She sounds exactly like my DD2, right down to the artistic talent. Only my DD2 didn't shoplift, she nicked a bank card from us and ordered stuff online.

The self harm didn't stop at not washing: she started cutting herself too. We were referred to CAHMS, who were hopeless and had a helpful pastoral person on board at school.

I think DD suffered as an introvert with three extrovert siblings and slipped a bit under our radar. I think it's also possible there was some sort of issue with some music tuition she was having which she demanded, almost hysterically, to quit, but she refuses to discuss that.

Anyway, four years on, she is absolutely fine. Great self esteem and doing well at college. She has also traded in some of more negative friends for a nicer bunch of kids. What has helped is lovebombing and lovebombing and lovebombing. Basically at all times treating her with love and care and like she really matters. Her older siblings going to uni also helped as she had more of our focus.

I really feel for you OP; it must be so hard to be a good mother when you have little experience of a good mother. My own mother is quite cold and I have to make a conscious effort to actually demonstrate my love for my kids. You are half killing yourself to provide for your daughter and meet everyone's needs but she won't see that. All she will see is that you have no time for her. Your situation sounds well nigh impossible, night shifts are awful for a person's mental health, and your DH needs to be stepping up big style.

Wait till she's 14 😬.

You are focussing all your anger in her and it's not fair.

She didn't make you work night, she didn't cause your illness and she didn't make you have two more children when you admit to not coping with just one.

It's all about you but one of her parents needs to step up and be there for her. When she's an adult what's she going to say about her parents, it's likely to not be anything positive unless something changes.

I agree with above poster. SS don't get involved over minor incidents, you say you've tried to bond with her and it didn't work , so what do you intend to do ? This is the very start of the teenage years in my experience it gets worse so you need to try and develop a relationship