Kids, work, everything is my fault.

[Putthatonyourneedles]

Why is everything my fault? Why is it dumped on me. I have dd12 and two lo under 5, work nights full time whilst juggling depression and Dh works full time.

I had postnatal depression with dd12. It has strained our relationship, she has a brilliant bond with Dh (her dad) but as a result social services have been in and out of our lives for a number of years particularly when I've had bad periods of mental health and now this latest social worker has declared that everything is due to me.

In the last year social services have started to blame everything on me. Dd12 was caught shoplifting on cctv on numerous occasions on the way to and from school (banned from two shops now) she denied it even when told that we had evidence of it. The police came into school and spoke to her about it, all was fine with no more reports of shop lifting or finding items that we hadn't bought in the house.

She won't brush her teeth properly (she will even lie and just wet the toothbrush but not actually use it)she wont brush her hair thoroughly or take any pride in her appearance despite me letting her choose her hair bobbles and bits. She won't wash properly, she just stands in the bathroom running the shower whilst she isnt in it and then says that she is done or she just stands there with the water pouring over her but not actually washing herself with bubbles (which she chooses)

She won't bring her laundry down to be washed or if she does it will only be half the wash basket. She has one chore per day ie Wednesday is her laundry day, Friday she has to put her clothes away etc. Not major huge chores. Small responsibilities for herself. One month after nagging her constantly about uniform I stopped nagging her and asked once for her to bring her uniform to be washed on her wash day and I didn't count the shirts into the machine, as instructed by the social worker to "give dd12 a rest from being nagged" in the end she ended up going to school in dirty uniform.

When challenged or "nagged" about anything she automatically defaults to "I don't know" or just grunts and whines.

She started to forge my signature in her homework diary, she will often be late to school or very late home.

My lo will clean their teeth, put their shoes away and help with chores occasionally.

I don't know what to do next or how to sort this out? I'm tired of being blamed for a 12yo who wont wash properly. What am I supposed to? Wash her like a baby?

We have tried positive reinforcement with pocket money and items, tried negative such as taking away her kindle tablet until she completes her chore or co operates with us. Everything goes fine until we give her the tablet back and then the behaviour reverts right back to before.

But it's much easier and more satisfying (apparently) to blame the OP.

Just as easy as blaming a 12 yo then

Also that poster said if i were you she did not tell the OP to leave her job.

I think the dirty clothes to school was more of a way of her DD seeing the result of not bringing her things down - i.e. Action- consequence

I have 2 12 year olds - both reluctant tooth cleaners - both reluctant showers - perfectly normal

They do cover these basics at school - so should see some improvement!!

I think you need to back off - ask once -

I think you can make some time for her - I'm assuming DH shares the housework - if not why not!?

He can clean a kitchen and mop a floor as well as you can - he may well put the little kids to bed - but he can tidy up etc before he sits down -

As they are under 5 I assume they go to bed much earlier than she does - cannje engage in a TV program for play a game?

As she has technology a text is worth its weight as far as communication goes -

I think you do need some suppprt and encouragement - but from your DH

Try to see it that you are providing for her physical needs by the washing and ironing (which I never do myself BTW). So on that count, it's hard because you are taking on full responsibility with no input from her.
What would help to ease that is to meet more of her emotional needs.
Focusing on this as the area of importance for now, and not the other areas will naturally lead to these other things resolving over time

I haven't read the whole thread soapologies if repetition.

It sounds to me like she is depressed. She is punishing you and dh in a passive aggressive way with a policy of non-co operation, and the not washing is remarkably like a dirty protest.

With your time taken up with the younger dc, work and the added problem of mh issues, she may well feel angry, resentful and sad and that there is no time for her (I would!). This does not make it "your fault", it is what it is, life is demanding, but if I were you I would find her someone to talk to outside the family to help her look at and work with her feelings and hopefully communicate them to you and dh.

Punishment is utterly counter productive. It will simply reinforce her negative feelings about her situation. Nobody ever stole and refused to wash out of feelings that come from a happy place.

I had a 12 year old just like yours. Thank god she's now 20 and despite all the stress is now in second year at uni. I would focus on the positive if she cleans her room its a plus. Wash her uniform as she needs to have clean clothes for school. Ignore her other clothes unless she brings them down as asked. Shower and teeth not your problem ask her but if she wont you cant force her. I had social services involved at one point long story they were very understanding. I had an older child at same school and school confirmed l was doing everything possible. DD was already being by cahms and had a stable home life she was just a,very challenging teenagers

It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it (and why you do it). It sounds like you are mechanically following SS advice so as to get them off your back without buying into their suggestions or asking yourself why they are making them. There are no easy, practical solutions to emotional problems and your dd not washing and shoplifting is an emotional problem, imo. Probably due to your own mental health issues, it sounds from your posts as though you don't make extended attempts to engage emotionally, but tend to revert to dealing with the mechanical and practical extremely quickly after she has rebuffed you or given up on something (e.g. Beavers or guitar). Your dd sounds like an unhappy little girl who is not connecting emotionally with her family. The determined and deliberate smelliness and scruffiness are a symptom of the real issue, not the issue itself. Are there any ways you can think of to make her feel more loved and secure, rather than following advice from others that you do not necessarily buy into? Do you think she needs more mental health support from outside the family?

I must admit, my mum did the 'if your uniform isn't in the wash Friday, I can't guarantee it dry for monday' thing - and I bear her no ill will for it. I went to school in a damp skirt/shirt more than once.

Mind you, by secondary, I was given a monthly budget to buy my own lunch (or lunch ingredients) and expected to iron my own uniform too, so perhaps my mum just fostered a lot more independence.

The hair/teeth/showering thing I definitely did, that's very, very normal, as is a tip of a room..

You're not a bad mum, she's 12, they can be terrible (I was awful) - and I, personally, don't think it's neglectful to expect a 12 year old to put their washing in a washing basket or suffer the consequences.

I really feel for you OP, you're all going through a tough time and with your MH issues you're finding it difficult to cope.

You are a good mother : your mothering sense are shouting at you that this is a crucial time for your DD, and that she is having difficulty. The behaviour that you outline is intended to affect you and your DH because you are both the people she loves most in the world. If you don't help her now, it will just get more extreme and destructive, as others have said.

You have many responsibilities - job, childcare, housework, caring for OH - but for now, you need to find ways to prioritise just two: caring for DD and caring for yourself. You can't delegate your job, so that has to stay the same, but you need to lessen the burden of childcare/housework and 'partner care' so that you can focus on the important things right now: you and your girl.

She needs to feel your unconditional love. You need to find a way to stoke up that love within you. Clean hair, teeth, clothes are all on the surface and can wait. She needs to connect with you and you need to take a real deep interest in her. Remember how shit it was to be 12? Give her the love you needed when you were that age.

At the moment, she sees a mum who has her own troubles, and she cares deeply about that and is scared too. Fear makes everyone feel vulnerable, especially when you're just getting to know yourself, and when hormones are making everything change. She sees a mum who is putting time and effort into keeping a clean house, putting food on the table, looking after the young ones, getting the washing done. These are all ways we tell ourselves that we are showing our family that we love them, but it's not clear when you're a child. Absolve yourself of those responsibilities as much as you can (if OH isn't willing to pick up half the burden, maybe he can chip in half for a cleaner who irons?) and spend the time you gain on getting yourself better and fixing your relationship with your daughter. It's now or never: you will never regret it.

I read the OP thinking it sounded much like me when I was 12 or so - hormonal, soap-dodging, belligerent, know-it-all, bit of an arse.

I was vile until at least about 14, it took me till I'd left home for uni before I could have a half way civil conversation with my mum.

I think you have an extremely busy life - wash her uniform, send her up for a shower and teeth. PP are right, you can't force her to do it, but get her into the habit of going up there. Make sure she doesn't have a phone for distraction. Maybe treat her to some Lush bits and pieces.

Has she started her periods yet? Is that something you could 'bond' over? (I'm cringing writing this!) like making sure she's stocked up, got some decent pants and then you can really drill in the hygiene stuff.

Did only one other pp read the OP's post about her own mother?
You poor thing, OP, you must feel like you've just about had enough. Does it help at all to think in terms of resenting your DD for what happened to you and how she's getting away scot-free from that, but STILL behaving so badly? That's how I would feel, I think.
The thing is, that's your problem, not hers. She has her own problems but how your mother was isn't her fault.
What were things like for you when you were her age? How would you feel if someone treated her like that? If angry, feel angry for yourself, but then try to separate it from your feelings about her.
I agree with everyone who says she is longing for loving attention, and that it should be unconditional. Not treats, just a couple of hours a week when you spend time together. Even if it's just sitting together at home while DH takes the others out.
Hope it gets better - it sounds like things are really, really hard at the moment.

She sounds exactly like my own DD1, between the ages of 12 and 15 she was a bloody nightmare. I loved her but I most certainly didn't like her.
Every interaction with her was sullen and rude, she refused to wash her teeth, wash herself, bring clothes to laundry, put clothes away, put clean clothes on, be civil.
In the end I would collect the uniform from her room to wash but if she wanted anything else washed she had to bring them down.
I would ask how her day was/what was she up to she never answered, we were lucky to get a grunt more often we got shouted at that we were nosey/interferring.
We fed, clothed, loved her and worried about her but at 12 how the do you physically make someone brush their teeth? I once got so angry I told her i'd wash her myself and she said if i touched her she ring the police as I'm not allowed to physically force her and she was right so that's when we stepped back.
If I was you I'd step back, ask the question once Have you washed/brush your teeth take her answer and leave it. Can you keep a diary of what you're asking/encouraging her to do and the reactions you get.
Do try and spend more time together but maybe not planned activities, maybe if your DH is around suddenly decide to take her for a hot chocolate? Just little insignificent outings that will build up? If she likes art then maybe to a museum?
Most of all take a step back and try not to be stressed, I'd say you are trying so hard not to be your own mother you're stressed even before you have to deal with the children.
Take care

Oh and DD1 is now 19, still not the most hygenic but i can honestly say I like her......she drives me potty but she has turned out to be a fairly sensible adult

Did only one other pp read the OP's post about her own mother

No i read it but as much sympathy as i feel regarding OPs childhood i cant agree that it makes it ok to treat her own daughter poorly.

Routine - it's a bloody pain to get started and exhausting - lots of arguing - then lots of it x time so y happens - then suddenly arguments cease. I've come realise this is something my own parents did.

At the minute - I insist on one bath and hair wash a week - as it's a current issue. They do shower before and after their swim lessons - so really it's about twice a week. It's a set day and time and that massively seems to reduce arguments. I will up it if there is cause - dirty, smells or nits - and flag it up way in advance and ride out objections plus often use bribery of some TV or film after.

Have you tried a written tick list of tasks? - that seems to help especially if they are being argumentative - have you done everything rather than go do x. Also helps establish a routine.

Teeth - have your tried an electric tooth brush - stupidly this seems to be an incentive - I got mine one with two minute timers so I don't have to nagging about length of time. Mouth wash - would that be tolerate? The red/blue tablets that pick out poor cleaning might help as well - something independent of you that shows her what needs to be done.

My eldest is a only bit younger - I still wash clothes, though often skip ironing, still sniff test - I aim for them out of room and into wash pile on landing - but even that needs reminders.

I agree it's annoying to be the parent blamed - I left the children in DH their DF care and one was injured I had medical staff blame me because wasn't there despite knowing their other parent had been.

I would ask your other half for much more support - so your not the only one reminding and dealing with her.

The shop lifting is more serious - I don't know how I'd deal with, and hope to never find out, though we would do it jointly as a united front.

OP there is obviously a much deeper backstory to your post, your frustration and exhaustion comes through very plainly. I remember you posting before about your unsupportive DH, the one who does no housework or child care and only works 20 hours a week, hopefully he's got his act together but maybe he hasn't. You've been honest and admitted you have always struggles to bond with DD1 and that you have found this much easier with DD2 & 3. DD1 might benefit from some counselling both on her own and with you.

My focus is on me at the moment as I'm trying to keep myself alive selfishly and able to function at work to bring home money to pay for essentials such as rent,water,clothes etc. I am at the end of my rope over this.

I sleep for 4 hours when the lo are at nursery, I do the housework when they are at home in the afternoons and I'm normally in bed asleep on the nights I'm not at work by 10pm. Both the lo wake during the night

Eldest gets home at 1700 whilst I'm cooking tea/washing the dishes. She then takes 45 minutes to get changed out of her uniform. The kids eat whilst I iron my uniform, pack my bag for work. Dh gets home and I go to work.

On my nights off she will sit on her tablet despite attempts to socialise with her. I have tried to get her to help with simple tasks like cooking or prepping veg for dinner. SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT to the point where she will scream shout and cry that she 'wants to sit down' or do her own things. .

How many times am I supposed to send her back in the shower because she won't wash? She was in the shower 25 minutes this morning and I could guarantee you that she is not clean. So if I send her back time and time again well then she will be late for school and I will be in trouble with school and ss for that.

I cannot change my shifts, I work what is avaliable. This is with a flexible working request in place. I cannot change my job. Sometimes my job is what keeps me alive if I'm honest.

I tried bonding when she was little, it didn't work so it was decided that I would be the main bread winner, battled through uni and dh would be the stay at home parent.

Ss have been involved due to me having an abusive childhood, pnd and lack of bonding, depression, ptsd, my child shoplifting. Do you not think I have begged for support? Instead I get told " go to your gp" who then slaps me on a new type of medication or changes the dosage. None of which is working. I don't fit the criteria for some of the support services. For.example I tried to get support from the crisis team but was told that I wasnt unwell enough.

Can you imagine someone walking into your home and belittling all you do, blaming everything that has happened on you. Ive had this all my life. My.mother blamed me for everything, was physically abusive and dragged us up in a fithy house.Because that is what I've got on top of depression. I've got no family support. It's me,dh and the kids. I have, hand on heart, tried. Only now instead of it being my mother it is ss.

My dh does his share of the housework and is now working full time. But I'm the one at home when dd gets home and gets to deal with the majority of the strife.

OP, you may well have stopped reading this thread now but have any of the suggestions sounded like things you could try?

I think having had a difficult experience of being parented makes it very difficult to be a parent. After all, that's our model. And even harder if we're desperately trying not to repeat our own experience.

As a teenager I felt very unloved and neglected by my mother, and I fully anticipate to find ds's teenage years a bit tricky as a result. It's also always hardest with your eldest as they are the child introducing you to each new phase of parenting.

I really would recommend requesting a referral to CAMHS based on what you've said, and also ask about what therapeutic family support you could access. What have ss suggested? Hopefully they have done something other than just tell you what you're doing wrong. Which I get the impression is how you feel everyone is responding.

Lastly, how is your dd getting on at school? Socially? If that area is settled then CAMHS may well reject the referral, but I think she needs some outside support.

Take care of yourself. It's bloody hard this parenting lark and no one gives you a manual sadly!

Sorry, cross posted. Have ss not suggested CAMHS for dd then?

You said that you tried to bond with her as a toddler but it didn't work. That must be heartbreaking for you. But, when they hit puberty children become like toddlers again (emotionally and neurologically) and the opportunity for that attachment reopens...does that sound positive? I think that could be attempted with support...but I also realise that the support services are under funded and not always accessible.

Your life sounds incredibly busy and stressful. On one of the evenings you're not working could you just let her know that you're available to do xyz and leave it open? Will she stay in the same space as you?

No one is telling you that you are doing it wrong, they are all trying to help you.

And many of us are in a similar boat - I'm a single mum with teen DD's, bad childhood, PND, full time job etc so I'm not coming on here to tell you I'm a better parent, but that you have too much on your plate, and DD1 is also allowed to be struggling
She's resentful and angry, her life feels difficult and confusing.
She's got 2 little siblings who need a lot of attention. Puberty. School pressure. A hectic family life. She's being difficult because she's detaching from your family, maybe she doesn't know her place and doesn't feel wanted, and feels a burden.
She needs support too - keep fighting for that. And fight for her, hard as it is, she still needs mummy

Your daughter sounds like me as a preteen- I was desperately unhappy. I know you say you need to focus on yourself right now and I do get that but please acknowledge how hard it is for her. Especially if you have bonded better with her younger siblings? She's a child in desperate need of her mum. I hope you all can find a way through it

She was in the shower 25 minutes this morning and I could guarantee you that she is not clean.

Doesn't help you but I can't get my 11 year old in either shower at home - she will shower at the pool mainly as everyone has too before and after - so she fits in. I give choice of bath or shower at set time once a week - she chooses bath. Her clothes are clean and she doesn't smell though might get her to up washing in summer.

How is she not clean - would shower gel help - or is it hair ? We have stinky hair despite being "washed" - dry shampoo - leave in conditioners - threats about getting it cut - I'm trying them all with some limited success.

Wow Op, I really feel your pain, but like Pp have said pick your battles, and whether Dd baths or washes isn't a battle for me, leave that to her peers, she will take more notice of them and a lot quicker! Just make sure the bathroom is stocked with a variety of bubbles & smells. By the very nature of the 2 younger children they demand your attention and no doubt get it, all of which she see, but being 12 she thinks she grown up and doesn't need you , so try and spend some quality time with her every day,(easier said than done) start off with a 5 min conversation, on your evenings off

offer a hand / foot massage, movie night buying her favourite treat, Does she like cooking? If so let her do this make a cake, cookies, at the weekend make a meal together this is
a great way to give lots of praise and boost confidence which will also help towards her own hygiene. Have I read that she likes to hoover? If so let that
be her job, or have a list of jobs for the week and she chooses 1 a day, if not the consequence of her tablet or lost of internet connection,

It sounds like you are doing your best in challenging and exhausting circumstances and in must be unnerving to to feel that strangers (ss) are commenting on your family life. A lot of what you are experiencing (juggling work, children at different development stages, soap adverse pre-teens) will be something many of us have also experienced so you're really not alone. I went to a helpful free 'parenting teens' support class when mine were this age to get some strategies as it was obvious we had become locked into patterns of behaviour. One of the techniques was recognising that we were using 'labels' on ourselves (mine was 'nagging') and also using them on our DC ('argumentative', etc) it helped us realise that we often conflate the behaviour pattern and the actual person. Just recognising when I was doing it allowed me to change the way I spoke to them, little things like sometimes using a question rather than a statement/ultimatum ('would you like to bring your clothes down to wash now or at 5.30?'), learning to use active listening to find out what is going on in their world, understanding how important tone as well as words are at this age, getting into habit of noticing and praising good behaviour. Once trust and communication improved so did our relationship and the behaviour patterns (mine as well). When you're already over stretched this must seem like another thing to add to your massive 'to do' list but with a combination of will and patience you will find something that helps (it sounds like a teens book might be more practical than support sessions due to work/child care commitments - though the opportunity to talk through common issues with other parents in the group was wonderfully cathartic). Seeing even small improvements will give you the energy and hope to move through this and on to the next stage - you'll get there.

Have you shown her what to do in the shower. Do you go up and ask if she needs help. We think how to shower and tipping your head back is obvious but you need to be taught how to do these things have you?

Your attempts to interact with her seem to be to do tasks with you/for you. Do you actually try and spend quality time together.

Truthfully the lack of bond between you and your daughter is at the root of all of this and her feeling neglected. Have you tried getting support for the two of you?

Where is her Dad in all of this who is his focus?

I'm going to keep it simple.

You need to really TRY to love your daughter more.

It will be hard because you are so overstretched and you are probably repeating behaviours you learnt from your own Mother (we all do it!)

Just take one week to be really kind to yourself and your daughter. Every time you feel yourself about to automatically make a negative comment or instruction could you try to give a compliment or ask her a question about herself. Watch a movie with her cuddled up on the sofa with her favourite food.

Just one week of not working on the tooth brushing or the washing and instead working on your relationship.

When children FEEL right, they tend to behave right. You might find that it's easier to get her to do what you ask as well.

OP, I truly feel for your situation and I'm so sorry you're feeling so down.
Being a parent is hard enough without the added worry of parental depression.
As your DH is working full time now, would you be in a better position to reduce your shifts slightly, so you can get some better rest/time for stuff which you then don't have to do when the kids get home?

I know what it's like not to have family around for support, as we were a mobile forces family with no family nearby for most of our postings and very few army friends around when I had PND. It was really hard slogging through each day. But, I made my dd my priority and had to let other stuff, like housework slide a bit until I got back on top of it.

There might be help for your dd in the form of children's services at your county council. Could you look on their website. For example, our county council don't need a diagnosis to be able to help children who need it and they provide parent workshops about all sorts of things.....teens, eating issues, anxiety etc. Perhaps there might be something like that near you that you or your dd could access?

Also, if your dd is in the shower for 25 minutes, there's every chance she is cleaner than when she went in.
However, it might be good to see if her school provide some sort of counselling....a lot do. It may give her another's place to chat and sometimes having a stranger to talk to helps.
Does she have friends at school? Do they ever come over after school? Could that be a thing? Would she enjoy that ?