To ask you honestly if you think my DD is badly behaved?

[tickettostruggling]

DD is 3, and I used to think a lot of her behaviour was normal for this age. I still think it's normal but I wonder if DD is maybe at an extreme end and I wonder if its my parenting I definitely don't want soft soaping here so please give it to me straight.

• tantrums, I know, normal for this age group but they last such an unbelievably long time and are so forceful. She honestly screams as if she is being murdered. Anything and nothing sets them off, things like buttoning her cardigan the wrong way, putting a blue hair bow in and she wanted purple.

• rudeness (this upsets me most) she is not a polite little girl. We were at a party the other day and she was given a "prize." She responded with a foot stamp and a loud "noooooooo NOOOOOOOOOOO I want THAT one." She couldn't have "that" one so she just kept screaming. It was a gift She has done this before if anyone gives her anything, so embarrassing.

• won't walk anywhere for long periods, she has to be carried and only by me, not DH or one of my friends. I've stood for an hour telling her to walk but she doesn't give up. It's definitely about being close to me not tiredness as alternatives like DH carrying her, standing on the buggy board, don't work.

• sleep, she's always been a bad sleeper and it's not improving, she wakes several times in the night and again it is me she wants.

It sounds awful but it's putting a strain on our relationship as DH thinks (he doesn't say so explicitly but it's obvious) I have "caused" this and I think maybe I have as I was very into the whole gentle parenting thing when she was born. We were at the zoo the other day and DH suddenly walked away with other DC when she was whining and crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said "I wanted to smack her, and I felt awful for wanting to smack her, but I did." I knew what he meant. Obviously I don't want to smack her but I do feel like she's making us all and more importantly herself miserable right now.

Any advice?

Haha ticket, he was a terrible sleeper too. Now a wonderful, bright, articulate 8 year old who is always complemented on his manners. I found 3-4 a real learning curve, but being firm and consistent with boundaries really helped, along with lots of positive reinforcement. He really liked games to play when walking, eg finding numbers on doors etc, pretending to walk like a lion, mouse etc.

And needs to put some distance between them and their child to redefine the parent/child relationship

Oh another thing I forgot - it might help if your DH spent more one on one time with her - doing a craft or a puzzle or whatever. So she gets more accepting of the idea that she can;t always be with you ( and you can spend the time with your other DC -s ot hings a re more even with the two of them)

If your DH seems intimidating when he does the firm voice and eye contact, he's doing it wrong. It should be a low fairly quiet voice, and the instruction should be very clear.

Daft as it sounds, - you can both practice the voice on each other when the children have gone to bed, so you get the right tone - where you sound firm but not scary.

Sounds like she really wants attention from you all the time. It might be s phase, it might be a result of parenting, it might be something else

I think along with being firmer (party bag situation I probably would have said well then you're not having the party bag and confiscated it and then cracked on sort of ignoring the tantrum of a huge one, if a little one/beginning of one then I would use distraction to try to stop it escalating) I would make sure I'm really praising the good behaviour and the little achievements all the time, really bigging them up so this when she gets majority of your attention.

If she's having a strop and clinging to you over hair, get up and walk off and do something else not engaging, if she follows just do same again. If she's starts off walking next to you keep praising and saying how nice it is to walk with her like that etc, keep it going throughout the walk.

unfortunately I parent the same way I dog train

This sounds like my DS.
From the ages of 1 - 4 he was horrendous. He was the child at playgroup no one would play with as he would have such extreme meltdowns and lash out at other kids.
Colours were also an issue for him and he would throw in disgust items that were the 'wrong' colour.
He also didn't sleep, cutting all day time sleeps at a few months old.

Now he is a law student, a musician and according to his secondary teachers 'such a lovely, calm presence in the classroom'.

They CAN change. Don't worry.
I would suggest though, introducing tactics to deal with the tantrums to let her know they are not acceptable behaviour. I left wherever I was when he started. I've left playgroups, parks, friend's houses, expensive concerts and also full loads of shopping at the supermarket.
I would warn him when he started up and then would carry him (kicking and screaming usually) from the scene to teach him that he would have to go home if he behaved badly. If we were at home, he had to go straight to his room and I would make it as boring as possible. Your DD must learn that there are consequences to her behaviour, but please don't worry. Who they are at three is rarely who they are at 23 .

My DD was the same at this age. I got all the same advice as you've had here. None of it worked. I went on parenting courses, none of it worked. She was labelled as badly behaved and I was labelled as a rubbish parent. 11 years later, after emigrating, she was finally diagnosed as autistic.

She's 24 now, still doesn't sleep, still has meltdowns over minor things and still says stuff which is considered really rude.

She sounds exactly like a strong willed child being raised by "gentle" parenting. Not nice to be around.

Re the walking thing. She's 3yo. You can trick her into it.

"I bet you can't beat me to the lamppost" (and you start running)

"Can you do tiny steps" (you start doing tiny steps)

"Can you do big steps/hopping/skipping/jumping/side steps"

"let's find a puddle to splash in"

"Let's find a nice leaf to make a picture with"

"let's try to hop over the cracks"

"Can you tell me all the colours if the cats as we go along"

"Can you sing me a walking song?"

If we get home super quickly there might be time for an extra story/board game/fruit/biscuit/stop at the park (or whatever)

"holding your hand is my best thing! Will you hold my hand?"

You need to be a bit creative.

Sounds like over tiredness to me. My youngest DS was very much like that at that age. He was a nightmare for sleeping for fear of missing out and would fight sleep at all opportunities - and a lot of the behaviour you describe sounds similar (a 15 min journey home from nursery once took us over an hour as he refused to walk and I refused to carry him, he then fell asleep tantrumming on the doormat as soon as we got in). It has improved with age and starting school, which wears him out.

You have my sympathies - especially on the DH point. I used to get frustrated with the implication it was my parenting, even though DH knew that I parented exactly the same as our eldest who was not like this at all. I recommend consequences, praising the good behaviour and picking battles. DH is crap at picking battles and tends to punish every misdemeanour which just gets him and DS into a vicious cycle of arguments - so watch out for that too.

I don't think you should blame yourself. My DH, his brother, myself and SIL are placid and quiet. My 3 DC and one niece also placid non-tantrum kids.
My BiLs eldest DC was a tantrumer from hell. Totally uncontrollable, even though all 5 children were raised in exactly the same way. It nearly drove my SIL into depression as she thought it was her fault. She did grow out of it by the time she was 5. My Sil's eldest GC is also a tantrum thrower.

She says that, in a way it is reassuring that her daughter cannot find a solution. Like you say the unpredictability of what will set a child off is what wears you out. The actual force of the tantrum seems to overtake the child and they cannot control themselves. I think this may be a storm you have to ride out. Punishment is hard to administer at this age, it has to be immediate and short. Also, as other have said, lots of praise for good behaviour.

I consider myself a gentle parent but we have rules and boundaries, they are just enforced in a gentle way.

I wouldn't threaten a punishment if leaving somewhere like a zoo or party because I know I wouldn't follow through, it wouldn't be fair on the other children for a start.

Tantrums stopped for us when she was given options. Can you can and choose a clip for me to put in your hair please. At the party I would have taken her quietly to one side, sat down with her and said "it's a gift, x is being kind to you by giving you the gift, how would you feel if she didn't like the gift you gave her" "sad" "right so what do you think you should do?" She'll either say "say thank you" or she'll say "I don't know" and then I offer her solutions. She's nearly 5 but I have done this approach since she was your daughters age.

It does sound like she's getting used to getting her own way. You can be gentle and have boundaries. The two are definitely not mutually exclusive.

You offer her a piggyback, which 'sometimes' she accepts?! You're offering and pandering to her every whim! No wonder she doesn't feel she has to do what you ask. Sorry for being harsh, but it seems to be the reality of it. You're too soft. Set boundaries

I think my dog is less of a problem, MiddleClass!

Thank you SO MUCH for these replies. The thing is, I have told you all the bad stuff about DD but none of the wonderful stuff ... the way she is so loving and kind to other children, she isn't horrible at all to them, ever, and she is so funny and cute.

The whole friend thing - it's hard for me, I don't know what I mean to that except I never felt I could confide in my parents, I felt they would laugh at me or wouldn't be interested or when I did try to tell them something they would sort of turn it back round on me ("well why did you do that? Honestly!") sort of thing. I just mean I want DD to know she can tell me things and open up to me?

My son is 3.5 and I have an 8 yr old and I would say its about boundaries and sticking to them. It's also about picking the battles and understanding their views and limitations. My son occasionally does the I'm not waking thing, he gets a choice I'll take the buggy or he can walk (he's tall for his age so there's no way I'm carrying him), he hates the buggy and hasn't used it for a year so will choose to walk - we both win! Social niceties are harder, they don't understand so I would take him away from the situation explain simply and again give him the simply choice you have what you're offered or if you don't want that it's fine but there isn't another choice.

Be careful what you threaten though because you have to carry it out - we told my daughter years ago it she didn't stop her behaviour we wouldn't go to the beach, she didn't stop and we spent the afternoon in a very hot holiday flat all feeling miserable.

It won't last, set boundaries now and life will become easier. She'll soon be 4 too!

I agree with the pp who said not to shout (although I haven't noticed anyone advocating shouting). Shouting is unhelpful in any situation where it isn't a life and death outcome .

Consistency is your best friend. It will feel mean at first, but it really isn't, it's just effective parenting and doesn't mean you can't have a cuddle afterwards.

The alternative is having a child who struggles to make and keep friends because of her behaviour. I've seen this in my job and it's heartbreaking.

Gin that's how I try to do things. But it's very hit and miss. Sometimes it works, other times she's so angry/upset that she just defaults straight to that "noooooo!" noise which I am starting to hate! - sometimes again you can "trick" her into walking but sometimes you can't.

That sounds like my DD (7) from birth to about 5! Her tantrums at school were the stuff of legend & even brought the head teacher down from two flights of stairs they were so loud! She was super intelligent & extremely frustrated! I found the 1 2 3 Magic book REALLY helpful.
But suddenly one day almost exactly when she turned 6 she changed. She became the calmest, most loving, polite, self sufficient & happy little girl you could ever wish to meet. She reads for hours books many 11 year olds would struggle with, she's doing really well at school & is my best buddy!
I think she just absolutely HATED being a baby and toddler. She's super independent & needed to feel she was able to do things for herself. Being a fluent reader & being very computer literate was the answer.
We have the best chats and cuddles & she's a joy now!
It will pass - just keep biting your tongue & sitting on your hands & do the counting - I'm so glad now I didn't get into a negative way of speaking to her eg "you're such a naughty girl" but instead just calmly counted whenever she kicked off.

Agree with KURRI, your DH needs to step up, do something that your little girl will enjoy, strengthen his bond.
I think she is a spirited little girl, who knows what she wants, which is great, but she needs firm boundaries and discipline, which in turn, will give her security. It is up to you as parents, to instill this in her.
Tears can often be a toddlers way of getting just what they want, it's okay sometimes, to let her cry it out, with no reward.
There is no mutual respect to be had at this age, or best friends, you're Mummy, a privilege in itself, but you call the shots!

You'll get there OP, but this gentle parenting approach, will not gain you any Brownie points, only a rod for your back, and further isolate your DH.

Yes that too, lots of praise for good behaviour. I have noticed with my gentle parenting friend, the one who's kids are horrid, that she's soooo busy being gentle and fussing over them trying to placate them when they're being naughty, but is off almost entirely ignoring them when they're good. I'm not saying you ignore your DD, but maybe just try to ramp up the attention and praise while she's being good.

Don't worry, being firm doesn't mean she can't be open with you. I don't think anybody thinks you should be serious all the time, and the more she grows up the more you can talk to her calmly about her behaviour post event and sort of evaluate it with her.

Her kind, loving elements sound adorable and are a great sign for her future friendships and even her wilfulness is a great thing when channelled in the right direction. She really could go far in whatever she wants with that combo x

OP I'm sure there are lots of wonderful things to be said about your dd - 3 year olds are amazing little people. But like all 3 year olds she needs firm, clear boundaries to help her navigate the world and let the world see her positive qualities.

DS is 2.6 and is similar in a few ways. Interesting to read replies about how to be firmer and discipline as I find that hard too.
Keeping a close eye on the thread!

3 isn't that young, my just turned 3yr old certainly knows there are consequences for bad behaviour. If she'd behaved like that at a party, she would have had one chance to apologise and then I would have taken her home.
I find immediate consequences work best at this age, time out, loss of toy/treat, removal from situation.
Tiredness does have a big impact on her behaviour though.

I wouldn't enter into a war with your child it makes everyone unhappy.

I would use a reward system and praise any positive behaviour.

Are you sure there is no ASD? You may not be the trigger, you may be the safe place.

Is she newly 3 or nearly 4? How old are the other children? When you say gentle parenting - what exactly do you mean?