To ask you honestly if you think my DD is badly behaved?

[tickettostruggling]

DD is 3, and I used to think a lot of her behaviour was normal for this age. I still think it's normal but I wonder if DD is maybe at an extreme end and I wonder if its my parenting I definitely don't want soft soaping here so please give it to me straight.

• tantrums, I know, normal for this age group but they last such an unbelievably long time and are so forceful. She honestly screams as if she is being murdered. Anything and nothing sets them off, things like buttoning her cardigan the wrong way, putting a blue hair bow in and she wanted purple.

• rudeness (this upsets me most) she is not a polite little girl. We were at a party the other day and she was given a "prize." She responded with a foot stamp and a loud "noooooooo NOOOOOOOOOOO I want THAT one." She couldn't have "that" one so she just kept screaming. It was a gift She has done this before if anyone gives her anything, so embarrassing.

• won't walk anywhere for long periods, she has to be carried and only by me, not DH or one of my friends. I've stood for an hour telling her to walk but she doesn't give up. It's definitely about being close to me not tiredness as alternatives like DH carrying her, standing on the buggy board, don't work.

• sleep, she's always been a bad sleeper and it's not improving, she wakes several times in the night and again it is me she wants.

It sounds awful but it's putting a strain on our relationship as DH thinks (he doesn't say so explicitly but it's obvious) I have "caused" this and I think maybe I have as I was very into the whole gentle parenting thing when she was born. We were at the zoo the other day and DH suddenly walked away with other DC when she was whining and crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said "I wanted to smack her, and I felt awful for wanting to smack her, but I did." I knew what he meant. Obviously I don't want to smack her but I do feel like she's making us all and more importantly herself miserable right now.

Any advice?

Give her choices where you can - blue bow or purple bow, pink top or blue top etc. Don't set her up to fail, just make sure the choices you give her are ones you're happy for her to choose from.

It does sound badly behaved to me and I would agree with others who have said that consequences need to be absolutely clear and consistent and non-negotiable. The fact that she requires you and only you may suggest that it is you she finds safe and comforting - or that she knows that she stands a better chance of getting her own way?

What boundaries have you currently established with her?

My remedy for tantrums was to remove the DC from the situation and not allow a return. When they were calmer a talk about what had happened and why removal was necessary and a reminder it will happen again.

And repeat.

Thank you, I will look into that parenting course :) I really am finding these replies very helpful. I need to know as I know some people are just born knowing what to do but I'm not!

Consequences need to be immediate. IE no prize at all at party for behaviour, going straight home if behaviour is poor etc.

Definitely take her home for that behaviour at a party. It's not acceptable and she needs to learn that. She won't learn it just by you saying please don't do that (or whatever happened, you don't say what steps you took). Three isn't all that little and she needs to know who's in charge i.e. not her.

Do the epic tantrums usually result in her getting what she wants?

My gut reaction is to say yes she sounds badly behaved. I think she is old enough to have consequences for her behaviour (and has been for some time).

For example when she started kicking off at the party you could have said "if you do not stop this we will leave the party" and then follow through with it? Or take her outside for a time out on the steps outside for 3 minutes?

If she developmentally fine she should be able to understand no, you can teach her the difference between good behaviour and bad behaviour. She will be able to understand simple consequences.

You've had some good examples from other PPs of what you could do, and you could look online for ideas. The key is consistency.

Also positive reinforcement of good behaviour. When she behaves in a nice way you can encourage it by responding positively, giving lots of praise etc.

Sit down with her and think of some rules for her together so she's part of it. Make a reward chart and agree when she has e.g. 10 ticks, she gets a reward (something like
Buying her favorite magazine or taking her out for icecream.)
Try and keep them simple and positive:
-Use kind words
-have gentle hands and feet
-share your toys
-use your manners
-do what mummy asks first time

(Or whatever works for you!)

If she breaks a rule, she gets a warning. If she does it again, she sits on the thinking spot for 3 minutes.

Star charts are made for this. Work out a system that works for you. Ours was a points - up to 3 awarded at the end of each day. We would discuss why they were given, so, incredibly bad tantrum about party bags would be none or one. I think none would be v v rare - aim is to encourage getting three. Then when 10 point achieved, small treat - extra story, play a game, watch a film, new whatever-collectable is in vogue, feed the ducks, go swimming, piece of chocolate, whatever works for you. Can tune to suit - maybe more points for a big treat. Etc.

Obviously a warning first, not straight home, but I certainly wouldn't allow poor behaviour to continue with no consequences. Try to avoid trigger times, eg when hungry or tired as she is then more likely to be poorly behaved.

But both you and your DH need to be on board with this. He can't just walk away anymore he's got to stay calm and follow through.

Don't be surprised if she gets worse at first, that's totally normal. But when she picks up that you're not going to back down she will start being receptive to that.

Consequences doesn't have to mean punishment. What happens directly before and after a tantrum? Does she get/ get out of what she wanted? Eg if a tantrum means you pick her up/ give up and go home that may be fuelling it. Staying in the situation while giving her very little attention, and praising when she eventually burns out can work, can feel embarrassing though! Poor sleep and sensory issues can also fuel tantrums.

I am probably going to be shot for saying this but I did the whole gentle parenting with dd1 and ds. Was such a smug evangelist. And then they turned 3 and 5 and what I got was a pair of brats and honestly no other children wanted to be around them. Because there was no punishment there was no incentive to behave.
Suffice to say I introduced a naughty cushion which could be brought anywhere and once they had consequences the behaviour improved. They are now teens with many friends and generally good kids. I am no longer a smug evangelist .

i think shes crying out for attention, can you spend some time one to one with her, try and make time for her each day. lots of cuddles and reinforce the good behaviour, maybe make bed time a little earlier and im sure in time she will behave better.

I have left my eldest with my friend to enjoy her day while my son was trantruming on a day out. He soon learnt that he wouldn't get away with it. I took him home and I meant it.

It sounds like your making excuses. You might waste money once or twice but it should pay dividends in the long run.
If your out warm your friend in advance you may do this and is it ok with them. I'm sure they would be happy to help.

Sorry OP but you do sound discipline averse.

She is 3. Not a tiny baby. My 3 year old knows that if he were to tantrum like that he'd be in the naughty corner before he could blink. We had to "set up" this discipline form - and follow through on it religiously. He now gets it, and just the mention of the naughty corner stops bad behaviour in its tracks.

You need to realise she is playing you, she is cognitively able to understand that she's being naughty and you need to drop the idea that speaking firmly to her is "intimidating"

Frankly this whole "gentle parenting" thing is dangerous to a civilised society. And I say this as some who cuddles her children a million times a day, smothers them in kisses, says "i love you" all the time etc etc. But i also insist on (and get) good behaviour from my 3 & 4 year old.

Consequences don't work for tantrums. Ask her if she wants a cuddle, if not, leave her to it. When she's calmed down, explain that she will never get what she wants with a tantrum. DS 5's tantrums are always caused by tiredness or hunger.

As others have said, I would address the sleep first of all.

A cuddle for a tantrum are you serious? Cuddles come once they've calmed down and that's where time out helps

But why can't she have the purple bow in if that's what she wants? Pick your battles. FFS it's not about the bow colour, if you can't see that hod help you.
Pick your battles with a naughty child

Oh, she can have the purple bow but that's the thing, that might go:

"DD, let me do your hair for nursery!" She trots over and I put her hair up. "What bow would you like?" She chooses the blue one and I put it in. Then she dissolves into loud sobbing. "What's wrong?" And she screams and screams and rages and is sort of trying to hug me and hitme at the same time, five minutes later she wants the purple one.

This is the thing, it would be easier in a way if she was tantrumming because she wants a toy or sweets but they aren't like that, it's always something so tiny you can "solve" within seconds but causes chaos!

Thank you so much for all this. There are some brilliant suggestions here. One thing I have realised is I think it's definitely tiredness triggering her.

Tantrums are par for the course at three but she does sound like she could do with a firmer hand.

Consequences are difficult at 3 yo because they need to be immediate.

So screaming/rudeness at the party - I would have immediately removed her for a discussion about behaviour and only brought get back in when she'd stopped screaming and apologised.

Otherwise at that age a firm talking to can be very effective. They naturally want your approval and seeing that Mummy is annoyed/disappointed can be enough to reinforce the point.

This doesn't mean shouting. It means eye-level chat, with a low very firm voice. I always found that removing the room/taking them aside was very effective. Eg "x behaviour is not appropriate/unkind/rude/unsafe etc. It is not acceptable. I love you but am disappointed with your behaviour just now because I know that you can behave very nicely. If you stop crying and promise to behave nicely we can go back inside. Otherwise we'll have to leave. Please say sorry . "

The hug is important because sometimes at that age they get a bit overwhelmed by the power of their own emotions.

Gentle parenting is all very well but you have to parent for the child you actually have. It sounds like you have a strong willed little girl (which is excellent) but her life will be happier if she learns to behave better.

Three and four can be a difficult year but it's import to instill discipline now before school. You have a responsibility to your daughter in this regard.

In terms of gentle parenting. My experience is that the families with the strongest boundaries and clearest expectations of good behaviour do the least shouting.

Be firm, be consistent, never give in to tantrums.

Bluntly, giving a child no boundaries or consequences for their actions is what makes them behave in this way. I have a friend who is a gentle parent, the kids are so awful that we avoid them, which is really sad. In my work and having school age children, I see a lot of children who behave in this way, and all of them have parents that refuse to say say or to enforce boundaries. It's stressful in the short-term, setting boundaries, but eventually you won't have to, because your DD will stop testing you. That's what toddlers do, and that's what teenagers do, they push and they push in order to see what they can get away with. You MUST form a united front with your DH and start setting out rules. All this business of being fine at nursery, that's what it tells you. It's not neurological, it's how she thinks she can behave when she's with you. It's not really fair on your husband either, always being the disciplinarian. You can still be a kind and gentle parent whilst sticking to rules. To be honest, if my kid had a tantrum like that at a party, the party bag would have been left behind and I would have taken her out. Again, I would consider myself a kind and gentle parent, I talk to them and I listen to them, we cuddle and we read stories etc etc. but if they are naughty, there are still consequences.

What exactly is "gentle parenting"? Not trying to be goady, just don't want to comment on something when I'm not quite sure what it means!

Common I worry you are right to be honest! I was sometimes frightened of my parents though, even though I knew they loved me ... not sure really.