To ask you honestly if you think my DD is badly behaved?

[tickettostruggling]

DD is 3, and I used to think a lot of her behaviour was normal for this age. I still think it's normal but I wonder if DD is maybe at an extreme end and I wonder if its my parenting I definitely don't want soft soaping here so please give it to me straight.

• tantrums, I know, normal for this age group but they last such an unbelievably long time and are so forceful. She honestly screams as if she is being murdered. Anything and nothing sets them off, things like buttoning her cardigan the wrong way, putting a blue hair bow in and she wanted purple.

• rudeness (this upsets me most) she is not a polite little girl. We were at a party the other day and she was given a "prize." She responded with a foot stamp and a loud "noooooooo NOOOOOOOOOOO I want THAT one." She couldn't have "that" one so she just kept screaming. It was a gift She has done this before if anyone gives her anything, so embarrassing.

• won't walk anywhere for long periods, she has to be carried and only by me, not DH or one of my friends. I've stood for an hour telling her to walk but she doesn't give up. It's definitely about being close to me not tiredness as alternatives like DH carrying her, standing on the buggy board, don't work.

• sleep, she's always been a bad sleeper and it's not improving, she wakes several times in the night and again it is me she wants.

It sounds awful but it's putting a strain on our relationship as DH thinks (he doesn't say so explicitly but it's obvious) I have "caused" this and I think maybe I have as I was very into the whole gentle parenting thing when she was born. We were at the zoo the other day and DH suddenly walked away with other DC when she was whining and crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said "I wanted to smack her, and I felt awful for wanting to smack her, but I did." I knew what he meant. Obviously I don't want to smack her but I do feel like she's making us all and more importantly herself miserable right now.

Any advice?

Is she just 3 or nearly 4 ? Because if only just 3 then I'd say quite a lot of it is normal and a lot of it is boundary testing - so you need to be firm with boundaries, and frustration at not being able to have her own way all the time (toddlers are all about Themselves )

With tantrums - within the limits of where you are, just walk away and let her get on with it (assuming she can;t hurt herself) be deaf to screaming.
And again with the party situation, be firm and matter of fact 'it's this prize or no prize' continued screaming 'OK it's no prize' and leave even if she is kicking off.

Not walking - 'then we're going home if you are to tired to walk' if you are with your DH then he can pick her up, he's bigger than her, it doesn't matter if she insists on it being you, he can pick her up and she can yell if she likes.

Somewhere she has decided that screaming gets her what she wants (your undivided attention, and her own way) so you have to reverse that - if she screams or is rude she gets neither of those things. If she is polite and well behaved she is more likely to get what she wants.

And enormously praise behaviour that is good. So if she does ask for something politely, show her you appreciate it, and if she walks tell her she's a good girl for walking nicely etc etc. Praise wherever you can. be firm and matter of fact (without raising your voice) over anything unacceptable.

Just repeat 'No we are doing XYZ' and don't move. You'll find if you can keep calm and not get angry (Easier said than done obv !) you won;t feel so out of control and miserable. And you being in control with give her a greater feeling of safety and knowing what is what.

When it comes to it, children don't like being out of control emotionally, they like boundaries.

Oh it's a bit sad to hear a small child talked about like this. She's very young, obviously quite bright but something is wrong.
A good night's sleep would no doubt help you all but it may be symptomatic of her problem rather than the cause of her behaviour. My son has always been an extremely poor sleeper but has never tantrummed etc, v sweet nature. However, his sleep problem is a symptom of his disorder, he too is extremely articulate. So they are bright, super sensitive and very sure of likes and dislikes.
I agree you need to pick your battles ie let her wear what she likes, and focus on the positive rather than the negative.
But I'd also suggest getting her to a pediatric occupational therapist who may well be able to offer insight into what makes your little girl tick - and stall. It was life changing for us.

Sorry to add, what Scarlett said above - I never shout. I would say never, truly. It's just not necessary, and again if you've set the clear unwavering boundaries and take time to explain things clearly and calmly, there's no need.

Are your other children older? Honestly if they are or at least one is, then it's not you as if it was purely your parenting wouldn't they all be like that?. I get what other posters are saying about walking etc. but I also have a DD like this and it's very hard some children just WILL NOT WALK. Some have really awkward personalities, there might be other issues, like sensory overload etc that hasn't been identified.

Sometimes you need to pick your battles, be extremely consistent, and have clear boundaries, and stick to bedtimes. My dd is nearly 9 now and finally is getting easier to manage... she's still hard work though

If you are out as a family eg the zoo. You don't have to leave and spoil it for the other's. Do you take a pushchair still? Strap her in that, face it to the wall and ignore her for the duration of the strop. Once that's over then you can decide your next step. Does she get spoken to or do you punish her behaviour further with no cake, treat etc

Honestly, your job is to teach her to behave well so others want to be around her. I remember when DS1 was 3, we had a lovely morning at the bookshop then went to a cafe afterwards for lunch. I was choosing him a sandwich when he insisted he wanted a weird chocolatey pastry thing. I told him that we were having a sandwich and if he was hungry afterwards we could share a croissant. He then proceeded to throw himself to the ground screaming...I was mortified. I got down to his level, told him firmly to stop or I was taking him outside. He continued. I put £5 on the counter to pay for my coffee I was not going to be able to drink, apologised and carried him out, still crying and screaming. I tried giving him 5 mins outside to calm down but he was hysterical. I then proceeded to carry him home in a hysterical mess. He eventually calmed down and walked but I explained we would just be having lunch at home now.

No, it wasn't fun, yes it punished me too, but he never had such a massive public meltdown again, or if he did stopped on the warning as he knew I had no issue with taking him straight home.

I agree that when you have other children around you can't always go home. You can do timeout anywhere you are though and we do.

I would concentrate on the sleep and consequences for rudeness. Deal with the walking later, it will be easier once she knows that there will be consequences even when out and about.

She does sound hard work. My very difficult 3yo had sensory processing disorder but there was a lot more going on than you mention so I would try a new firm routine for a good month or so before considering that route. You could also talk to the nursery about what methods they use. If you do the same then she will know what to expect.

Right now is not the time to be your child's friend it's the time to be her parent. She is hitting and raging on you, she needs to see you will not put up with that.

I do want to be her friend... I definitely want to forge a relationship with mutual respect

Why would you want to be friends with a 3 year old... Isn't it better to be friends with people who are adults. Your peers, mates, colleagues?

There are very few things that are mutual about a relationship with a small child.

I have always loved my daughter who is 19 now. We have had good conversations ever since she learned to talk. But we're only just getting to the point where we are (sometimes) friends, and respect one another as adults. Because she's sort of an adult now.

There's no possibility - absolutely none -that a 3 year old can know and understand a parent in an equal way.

How do you deal with the tantrums?

I've started time out with my two year old and counting to ten.

Yes, I would say your child is badly behaved. But, in my (limited) experience, this is what happens with gentle parenting. I'm yet to meet a gently parented child that isn't spoilt, rude and prone to tantrums. The alternative is not smacking; it's setting boundaries and providing the child with clear consequences for their actions. e.g. if you are rude, you don't get the gift. If you have a tantrum in public, we go home. If she persists, don't fuss over her or give her any attention, just calmly say: I warned you and you didn't stop, now we're going home.

I honestly don't know why anyone thinks gentle parenting works. I know a woman whose gently parented teenage daughter now regularly hits her and she STILL doesn't punish her!!! Bonkers.

So many ideas above I won't add more other than to say always say what you mean, keep calm, and ALWAYS ALWAYS follow through and never backtrack when it gets tough. Do not in the heat of the moment threaten consequences you can't follow through. Keep it calm.

You are not and should never be her friend, you are better than a friend you are her mum.

It sounds very clearly to me that you're allowing her to get away with unacceptable behaviour. I wouldn't have been able to help losing my temper with mine if they behaved like this! She needs to learn that her bad behaviour has consequences, that she will really piss people off when she's so naughty, otherwise where's the learning happening? Every child needs to learn basic decent behaviour skills. I'm not honestly surprised that people are starting to avoid spending time with you...it would drive me crazy if a mother tolerated that type of tantrum with 'gentle' ineffective parenting

Don't have time to read through, but I know two people whose children are similar (hideously behaved at home, clingy to mom/alternating with being vile to her, poor sleepers), but reasonably well behaved at school. Both are on the spectrum.

You might want to have her assessed.

DD1 was an appalling sleeper and had endless energy. At that age, we often used to end up taking her for a long walk before bedtime - 20 minutes walk to the park, half an hour on the swings and then walk home. The combination of physical exercise and fresh air meant that she was physically tired, and would sleep better.

That said, you do need to set firm boundaries and stick to them - punish by removal from a treat or nice day out and an explanation of why rudeness isn't acceptable. Otherwise she will become "that awful child" and won't get invited anywhere!

You sound far too soft with her OP. Like you said she isn't a baby anymore and needs to know tantrums aren't the answer. Have you tried just blatantly ignoring her when she's have a tantrum? Getting up and walking away, turning your back to her if she follows you and only reengaging with her when she calms down?

Thank you. I do really appreciate these answers.

She is just unbelievably strong willed with walking. If I walked away she would follow but then she does this thing of putting her arms round my waist and trying to "climb" up me, like some little squirrel or something I sometimes offer her a piggyback as carrying her REALLY kills my back , sometimes she will accept this other times it's just "noooo ... nooo ... NOOOO mummy!"

It's so helpful to hear how others have dealt with this, like the little boy in the café - does DD have a long lost brother?

I have learnt along my parenting road that 3 is a hard age, as is 4,5,6,7,8... Get the picture? My one thing that i learnt from one child to the next is children who want mum for everything do not like it when mum reacts calmly and swiftly to a situation. By this, i mean, if i was at home i would ignore them and not even utter a word. Unfortunately i didn't learn this early in my parenting! The shock of my nonchalance eventually behaviour changed. If i was out and about swift removal from places worked, not idle threats. It did take years to realise some good techniques. I am still learning every day. No-one is a natural mum. My oldest did tantrums and my youngest did controlling behaviour (bordering on OCD!), it kills at the time but try and keep calm. They want a reaction, they don't know it, but they do. Calmness blows their mind. That's been my experience of 3 yr olds anyway.

Elinor yes now that Dd is 18 we are more friends than just parent/child. It's a lovely dynamic.

She isn't your friend. She's your daughter.

You speak about wanting to respect her? It's disrespectful of you not to teach her boundaries. It's disrespectful of you not to help her become the best possible version of herself.

Parenting isn't a democracy. You are in charge. It's important for her safety, her education for her emotional and behavioural well being that you are in charge and setting boundaries.

That's how you respect your child. You respect the person she has the potential to become.

You can be her best pal when she's a delightful 19 yo. Right now she doesn't need that from you. She needs you to be her Mum.

You can't be friends with a Mother you disrespect.

If you don't start being firmer you will never be friends, you'll spend the next 15 years in perpetual battle.

Assessed for what? Tantrums at 3yrs old which is within the scope of normal behaviour at this stage.

Has she a younger sib? My parenting of my firstborn probably got a bit too gentle following and around the birth of his little brother and I could see other people were frustrated with me eg when I was 9m preggers and carrying a nearly 3 year old, but I was very anxious to mke sure he didn't feel he'd been replaced or that life had got worse. Anyway it all corrected itself eventually and he's an absolute love now and an amazing brother.
Introduce some consequences and keep explaining and being patient. She will grow out of it soon. Also sleep will help but my eldest didn't sleep through till 5 (and even now 'sleeping through' is exaggerating really!) so I have no good advice about that!
You need it to work for you and her behaviour needs managing/consequences introducing but don't ever feel guilty for loving your child too much. There's no such thing!

It does sound quite extreme. Am sorry that have to deal with this. My friend's daughter (5) is like this (possibly worse) and her behaviour is so bad that I no longer have play dates with them and actively avoid them. I find it too stressful. She is also far worse around her mum (she's tolerable if her dad is there, as he has clearer boundaries). The mum also uses a very soft parenting approach and refuses to properly discipline her daughter, so the daughter continues to play up and push the boundaries. She is sullen, mean, spiteful and has endless tantrums, yet the mum just laughs it off, tuts a bit and 'rewards' her daughter with toys and sweet treats in a bid to quieten her down. Last time we went for a playdate the daughter said she didn't want my son to play with any of her toys and the mum backed that up. The brat then sat on her tablet for 30 minutes refusing to let my son see what she was doing!!!! We left soon after. This child is constantly falling out with other children and I know of other mums who refuse to have playdates with them as a direct result of the child's behaviour. I firmly believe it is due to soft parenting and the lack of boundaries. I think children like boundaries - my son certainly does. He's pretty well behaved and knows that if he misbehaves or is rude there will be consequences and he will need to apologise. It's so important that you are firm. As others suggest, I would certainly have taken her out of the party or refused to have carried her. If they sense they are winning and that you will give in they will keep on pushing and trying their luck to get their own way. She needs to understand it is not acceptable. It probably will get easier as she gets older but I think you need to toughen up. Could you introduce a star chart for good behaviour, with the threat of taking away stars for tantrums, etc? If she gets to 20 stars, for example, there would be a reward. Then she has something tangible to work towards and something physical to look at to show her behaviour? Good luck xx

We did sitting on the floor as time out with ds as it could be done anywhere. I think you have a better relationship with dc when you're not constantly negotiating with them TBH, as you can get over the crap and move on a lot quicker to something more constructive.

I do want to be her friend any parent who writes that is a falied parent as far as I am concerned.