To ask you honestly if you think my DD is badly behaved?

[tickettostruggling]

DD is 3, and I used to think a lot of her behaviour was normal for this age. I still think it's normal but I wonder if DD is maybe at an extreme end and I wonder if its my parenting I definitely don't want soft soaping here so please give it to me straight.

• tantrums, I know, normal for this age group but they last such an unbelievably long time and are so forceful. She honestly screams as if she is being murdered. Anything and nothing sets them off, things like buttoning her cardigan the wrong way, putting a blue hair bow in and she wanted purple.

• rudeness (this upsets me most) she is not a polite little girl. We were at a party the other day and she was given a "prize." She responded with a foot stamp and a loud "noooooooo NOOOOOOOOOOO I want THAT one." She couldn't have "that" one so she just kept screaming. It was a gift She has done this before if anyone gives her anything, so embarrassing.

• won't walk anywhere for long periods, she has to be carried and only by me, not DH or one of my friends. I've stood for an hour telling her to walk but she doesn't give up. It's definitely about being close to me not tiredness as alternatives like DH carrying her, standing on the buggy board, don't work.

• sleep, she's always been a bad sleeper and it's not improving, she wakes several times in the night and again it is me she wants.

It sounds awful but it's putting a strain on our relationship as DH thinks (he doesn't say so explicitly but it's obvious) I have "caused" this and I think maybe I have as I was very into the whole gentle parenting thing when she was born. We were at the zoo the other day and DH suddenly walked away with other DC when she was whining and crying. I asked him what was wrong and he said "I wanted to smack her, and I felt awful for wanting to smack her, but I did." I knew what he meant. Obviously I don't want to smack her but I do feel like she's making us all and more importantly herself miserable right now.

Any advice?

I think you need to tackle the sleep. Lack of sleep really affects my dc's behaviour.

My children were both like this.
I absolutely HATE the three year old stage. HATE it. The tantrums the demand that Mummy needs to hold me, not daddy.
Everything that you mentioned.

And really crap sleepers as well.
My heart goes out to you.
Some parents don't experience it. Some do but earlier on (terrible twos) but for the likes of you and I, it's the threes.

It gets easier. Things that helped with my second child didn't help the first time round. For example using the naughty step or counting "I'm going to count to three and if you have stopped stabbing your brother with the pen then X Y Z will happen"
That kind of thing.

Discipline and just know that it won't always be this way.

The three year old stage alone is the very reason why I'd never have a third child.

Consequences would be things like tantrum at party = 1 warning then go home, tantrum at zoo = 1 warning then go home, ungrateful for gift = don't get anything.

She may have underlying issues which will mean these approaches won't work, but unless you have consistently and clearly given her the message that whinging/ crying/ tantruming doesn't achieve anything you won't know.

Thanks. It's very helpful.

I do understand what you're all saying. But for example at the party when there was the party bag tantrum, that happened as we were leaving anyway.

In a café - well she isn't fussed about food. Sometimes she wants something or she thinks she wants it but then takes a little nibble and decides she doesn't.

DH does the whole looking into her eyes, speaking firmly. But it feels a bit intimidating? Maybe I need to be firmer. It's so hard as I think of her as a baby still and of course she isn't!

I might be tempted to go away for a few days - perhaps with the other children. This would mean that you daughter needed to learn to accept care and reassurance from her father.

Perhaps the break would help you too.

I do think parenting works better if you're a team - and one person can substitute for the other, after the very very early stages (Breastfeeding etc.).

If you feel you need help with her the health visitor should be available. They have play specialists who will coach you in how to deal with her.

Well it sounds like you're not punishing her at all. Is there isn't consequences to her actions then how are you going to learn?
If she's screaming and refusing to walk, walk off without her. She'll soon follow. Or pick her up and take her home; make her sit at the table or the naughty step until she apologises.
You need to stop giving in to her, it sounds like you're too easy on her. Do you want her to be a spoilt brat all the way through her child hood? Cause her behaviour isn't going to stop unless you make it happen, as well as your DH.

How does she behave when you are not around?

If she were out for a walk with just DH, would she still refuse to walk or would she just get on with it?

The behaviour doesn't particularly sound normal to me (3 DCs of various ages), but it's incredibly hard to guess at why when you've never met the child.

She may just be used to tantrums & bad behaviour getting her what she wants, or there may be more to it.

I second ElinorRigby but if all normal then consequences. What happened after the rudeness at the party? Mine would have been picked up and taken if they'd behaved like that.

FWIW I had a nephew like this at three and it was due to lack of boundaries and guidance. But OTH you have older children - what are they like.

I always refused to pick mine up (back problems) so it didn't happen but when DD was three I tended to have the buggy because she just couldn't keep up with ds.

She is too little to realise that it's not appropriate to be ungrateful for a prize for eg Here we go, utter garbage. Three and she doesn't recognise bad behaviour, utter garbage.

I think you would really benefit from the Circle of Security parenting course. It's all about recognising your child's cues and learning when to follow their lead and when to take charge. It's evidence-based and follows attachment theory, so I think it would fit in with your gentle parenting mindset while giving you the tools to guide your daughter appropriately.

Totally agree with this
My two soon learnt tantrums are not the way forward if this are rigedly in forced

Pasrted from other post.
If you're out and about - go home.
If you're at a cafe - no juice/cake/treat
If you're at home - early bedtime/naughty step

Children this end like to choose and by taking away their choice you are sending a message they can't get their own way all the time.

Oh and I think the looking into eyes and speaking firmly isn't 'intimidating'. This is providing structure. I think children need boundaries to feel happy and secure. If a parent is not strong enough to put down those boundaries - effectively leaving the child in charge - that is scary for the child.

Her behaviour does sound extreme, but she is only 3. You say you have other children- are they older?

We adopted a 3 year old who found parties and other social situations difficult. As soon as she went into a tantrum, I just picked her up and left, as at that point, she couldn't have listened to reason (although she still struggles with that as she has LD). After a while she connected the tantrum with me taking her out of the situation.

Another thing I found helpful was keeping my face from showing any fear, frustration or annoyance. Any glimpse of that and I could see her adrenaline shoot up.

Be easy on yourself and try doing this gently at home- work on acceptance of a situation and use the same language all the time. Tell her what you see...' I can see you're upset/sad/cross/frustrated' to give her the tools to explain her feelings. Ask her to use her words and give her time to formulate them.

Treat this year as a learning, ready for school, year. Keep trigger situations to a minimum and be very proactive in your approach.

I hope that made sense (typing on phone, so can't see what I've already written!). I know how distressing it can be, but if you arm yourself with a few strategies, it can be helpful.

Oh, and I used to talk through the day with my two. In the morning, we'd have a story about 2 children who were setting out to do whatever we had planned for that day. The story contained scenarios that I thought we might encounter. It often helped!

Good luck .

You do need to be a team win your DH as she'll learn if she hasn't already that she can play you off against each other and that one is the good parent/bad parent scenario.

I think 3 is still tiny - an age where she can't explain herself clearly - even if she speaks well she will hardly know all the words for emotions and strength of emotions. Also if she sees older DCs apparently swanning through life (being understood by adults etc) she will feel frustrated I would think that she can't be like them.
I don't know why DCs are naughty with their DMs but that always seems to be the case. I think they are just letting out their anger to the one person who they know loves them best.
Try not to make threats of punishment without following them through, try to make one to one time and wait several months because she will grow out of this soon.

Any reason for her to feel insecure regarding her relationship with you? Do you have younger children? Potentially stems from insecurity more than anything else especially as it seems to be all about you.
I don't buy into the idea that children are on the warpath looking to make us miserable or that they need to "lose" to understand 'good behaviour'. With my 2.5 yrs old if she is being difficult I remove her from the situation to allow everyone to calm down. But I don't do time outs or naughty steps etc as I think they are counterproductive. Removing from the situation however is often useful and necessary but I would normally continue to interact with her to some extent to reassure her that whilst her behaviour does not make me happy, I am still there for her.
As someone has mentioned tiredness can definitely be a major contributor so worth looking at that.
Does she go to nursery? How if she there?

It's very unusual for her not to be with me, unless it's at nursery.

I do want to be her friend. Obviously I'm a parent too but I definitely want to forge a relationship with mutual respect. It's just hard when I am the only one being respectful

I know I sound like I am being difficult but the problem with going home is that it punishes the other child too, it punishes you (waste of money) it punishes any friends you have gone with? It isn't always possible or practical.

Tantrums
Put the blue bow in and let her tantrum in her room. Shut door and ignore.
If in public, remove too car, put in car, shut door, stand outside the car tikk she stops. Alternatively take her directly home and ignore tantrums in car. When tantrum stops tell her that tantrums will get her nothing and as she has tantrummed there will be no nice things that day (sweets, tv, etc)

Rudeness
In your example, if my 3yo DD did that, she would get no prize and be taken directly home and treated as though she had tantrummed.

Walking
If she doesn't walk, she doesn't go. So say you go to town, park car, if she wants to go to Gregg's, toy shop, sweet shop wherever, make it clear she's walking, if she doesn't walk, she doesn't go.

Sleep
If she wakes and wants you, send DH.
If she tantrums, shut her door and leave her to it.

Sounds like she has to see that her action won't get what she wants.
If everutime she screams for mummy and mummy comes she's learnt that her screaming means what she wants to happen will happen.

Every time she acts spoilt but people given in to stop her cryin or whatever then she's learnt that acting that way gets what she wants.

Same as sleep, when she wakes and shouts for mummy, when mummy comes running, she's learnt her action results in what she wants

Tantrums. Totally normal - I think it's about trying to find least painful/most efficient way to deal with them. With my ds (nearly 3) I've discovered ignoring it comepletly (while screaming in my head) gets us through them most quickly.

Rudeness. She's 3, how is she meant to fully understand you can have x but not y. Of course I encourage manners - please, thank you and what not - and would likely be embarrassed by what you describe I think you need to see it from her view point....why couldn't she have what she'd wanted? (Not saying the answer is to give it to her, but I can understand why she could be upset)

Walking. My ds is the same. I wouldn't discuss it for an hour. I would either not go where we're going or bundle him up and walk with him. I don't see how a battle of wills with a toddler leads to anyone 'winning'

Sleep. Can't comment on but must be exhausting for you.

So basically she sounds totally normal to me, and you have my sympathies at how frustrating it is....but I find it helpful to remind myself they are just small people trying to understand the world, how they should act with others and their feelings.

It is at the extreme end but i doubt you have caused it. Some kids are just like that. Between me and my sister we have 5 kids. All brought up the same. Kindness boundaries where needed. One of them was exactly as you describe. Impossible between about 2 and 4.5. Magically improved at school and behaved for her nursery.

Not seconding ElinorRigby about you going away with the other dc but not her.

I suspect as she is your youngest she is being kept the baby for a bit longer than she should be.

Do you think your guilty of that op?
Do your older children spoil her and let her get her own way as she's the baby?

But why can't she have the purple bow in if that's what she wants? Pick your battles.

It isn't intimidating - you get down to her level physically and talk to her firmly. Little kids learn from having the boundaries set and reinforced. They don't then cower in fear, they learn what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. Otherwise they think the world revolves around them. This is going to sound harsh, but you need to grow a pair and stop her running rings round you.

She's your child, not your friend, and she'll have a lot more respect for you if she knows her poor behaviour won't get her anywhere with you.