Was neighbour's reaction out of order?

[RuledByAToddler]

I've name changed because this is quite outing, also sorry for the long post in advance but I want to prevent drip feeding.

Thursday my 13 year old sisters came round in the morning as they were meeting a friend who lives by me and then they were planning to go into town but Doris put a stop to that so they all ended up stuck at mine with no power for hours.
Fast forward a few hours and wind is beginning to ebb away so sister 1 and friend go off to park opposite my flat, 20 minutes later my doorbell rings so sister 2 shouts down the stairs (upstairs flat) that door is open as she thought it was sister 1. Turned out to be neighbour's 19 year old son instead. She told him one moment whilst she got me, I quickly throw some clothes on as I've just got out of shower due to power finally coming back on, when I step out my bedroom and he has already let himself in and come up the stairs so is stood waiting outside my bedroom door.
He then told me how my sister and friend have been playing knock-a-door run on both his doorbell and his bedroom window (he lives in downstairs flat) and he's not taking it. Immediately I apologise, explain I was unaware but now I am I will have them straight in and not to let them back out and I will deal with them both. Neighbour's son repeats himself about what the girls have been doing and his voice is raising to the point he is shouting in my face, I stay calm and repeat that I understand his frustration and I'm sorry for their actions and I will deal with them, he then carries on shouting in my face again how they have been ringing his doorbell and knocking on window then storms down stairs and shouts back that he's calling the HA next time.
By this point I was furious at the way he had barged into my home, spoken to me and then threatened me with HA as he stormed away. I immediately though shout the girls in, tell them off and don't let them back out for the rest of the day. I later get a call from DM after girls have gone home and she sends me a video of girls pissing about earlier, there was also footage from neighbour's son kicking the bin shed gate in on them both when he was coming round to my home.

Today I went around to neighbour's to deal with situation as her and I have always got along very well and I didn't want there to be any issues. I asked that her son come speak to me too, at first he refused but then reluctantly came out. I told them how I was sorry for sister's actions and she had been dealt with accordingly, but I then told them how I wanted an apology for his actions as he was aggressive, threatening and even showed violent behaviour by kicking gate with girls behind it. They did not seem to think he did anything wrong, AIBU by thinking his reaction was very wrong, especially as it was the first time he had come to me about the situation and it's not as though he had already asked me to deal with it and I'd ignored him?
Please do tell me if I am because right now I'm so angry I can't see past my own point of view

He was aggressive yes, but he was NOT violent. I'd be the same as him or worse to be honest, can't stand irritating teenagers. Op should just let this one go, your side was in the wrong, he was in the heat of the moment.

I dont get this modern obsession with formal apologising. It is meaningless and a bit childish.

I'm not necessarily looking for him to say the actual words 'sorry' to me, it's more that I just wanted it acknowledged that the way he dealt with the whole situation and the way he came to me was out of order. Not at any point did I try to deny what the girls were doing was wrong and very naughty, but both the moment it happened and yesterday when time had been given to calm down, I was confronted by an aggressive man and neither him nor his mother seem to think that is unacceptable behaviour from a 19 year old.

he was in the heat of the moment.

This is the benefit of the doubt I had given him until I went around yesterday to clear the air over everything and apologise again for the upset that had been caused, however when he instantly became aggressive when I told him I hadn't liked him shouting at me before I could deal with the girls

I had this problem with kids when DD was a newborn. It made me feel utterly murderous so I sympathise with your neighbour.

I don't think "they are younger/girls, he is an older/taller man" means that he can't get angry. 12/13 is well old enough to know this is stupid behaviour with consequences. They had no idea who was behind the door.

Don't poke the bear.

Op so he is still pissed off. Most would be too especially if asked to apologize back after you apologized.

All he needed to do was to ask for them to stop! I'm afraid he completely lost the moral high ground!
Oh yeah because that works. A couple or so years ago I had two teenage lads doing a similar thing to me. They weren't knocking on the door or window (thank god) but they were cycling up & down my front path repeatedly, mocking me through the window etc. I felt very intimidated. I tried indicating through the window that were to leave (no way I was going to open the door - all neighbours were out at work) but strangely enough they didn't because they were having fun at my expense. They didn't go until I started taking their photos through the window. Until you've experienced it you don't know how horrible it can be.
They weren't little kids being silly, they were teenagers being malicious. And the sooner they realise that they have no idea how people are going to react (whether it's MH issues or anger) the better. Written apology? No wonder the guy told you to f-off - what a cop-out. They should have been marched round there immediately and told to apologise. Then he might have calmed down because he'd see you were taking it seriously. A face-to-face apology several days later (and my £ says you've only added that detail in later to keep people happy) is worthless.
OP hasn't taken anything on board because she's still defending them.

But why does he need to acknowledge this to you? Isn't that to all intents and purposes an apology? How are you imagining that this will make anything better?

FeliciaJollygoodfellow then you seriously have no idea.
I can tell you as a teenager that would have made me very anxious and wound up!
I suppose as it's a only a 19/o bloke though it won't
No idea.

I can't get over 13 year old girls doing this

sailorcherries

I and other posters are able to condone both the behaviour of the male teenager and the female teenagers.

Also 10 minutes doesn't mean much

Minimising again and Its long enough to be disturbed 4 times and unable to settle after because you don't know if its going to happen again.

Boney

You maybe, but a lot of the posters have pretty much excuses his behaviour as 'heat of the moment', 'angry', or 'within his rights'.

At no point were either party within their rights however, his reaction to the OP was exceptionally out of proportion on both occasions and his violent gate-kicking outburst could have had serious consequences.

Lots of replies seem to have demonised the girls and ignored/brushed aside this behaviour. I can't see how one is not as bad as the other.

The whole ten minutes thing was mentioned because other posters, again, assumed it was 10 continual minutes of knocking when in fact it possibly ampunted to 2 or 3 in total. Again, not excusable in the slightest but highlights how the duration of the event doesn't actually tie in with the reality of it.

You do not demand an apology for something YOUR family caused. Everyone here is saying you're in the wrong and you're still going on about him speaking aggressively. Of course he was livid, how annoying and frustrating it is. No doubt you're airing more of how YOU feel about HIS behaviour in front of the 13 yr olds, further enabling their behaviour. Zero role model. Well done.

If anyone used threatening behaviour towards me or my children it will be the last thing they ever do. Yes what the girls done was out of order but it doesn't warrant aggressive behaviour or someone walking in your house doing what they want. She just got out the shower and getting dressed and he was waiting out side her bedroom door that would scare the shit out of me. There are better ways of handling a situation with out turning aggressive and violently kicking doors at young girls. What ever the girls have done he is no better what if the door hit them. Looking at the tone of this thread that would be okay with some of you and using rational adult behaviour is pointless. Op in situations like this I would treat them with the same respect they treat me. He should have gone to you first if they weren't listening to him but instead he used threatening behaviour. With that attitude it won't belong until he sees the four walls of a prison cell if he continues.

sailorcherries

It is the same as those minimising and excusing the girls behaviour.

I agree that neither party has covered themselves in glory.

As you have brought up the kicking of the bin shed,
The girls were hiding how did he know that they were there?

Either he didn't and he kicked an inanimate object to get rid of anger or the girls were still laughing? or taunting? him.

The girls have footage of him kicking the bin shed, but at no point were they deliberately filming him.

One of these has to be wrong, as they were in the bin shed the only way to get footage of him would be to do so deliberately.

I do feel for the OP but the more I think about this the more malicious/deliberate the behaviour of the OP's sister and friend becomes.

The OP has stated that the tape went on for quite some time before and after the event. I see lots of young teenagers now filming their daily lives thanks to youtubers doing the same and making it seem glamourous - "oh look I walked to the shops"/"here's me cleaning my roo."/"I'm on the bus" etc.

It may well have been malicious but it may well not have been. We will never know but everyone seems to have jumped to one side of the fence already.

As for him knowing where they were he may have seen them, he may have chased them, they simply may have been talking or hiding. Everyone has assumed the worst in these two girls and while their behaviour is inexcusable, I still can't understand why it is okay to assume they deserved it or were intentionally being malicious and he was being reasonable.

Maybe I just give children the benefit of the doubt. I'm genuinely seeing it was two 13 year old girls who know a slightly older boy lives there (they must have known before to get the right door and window). Maybe they fancied him a little and thought it would get his attention? If they truly wanted to cause distress to someone then surely they'd pick on someone more obviously vulnerable such as the elderly (as other people have stated).

sailorcherries

You say that you don't excuse their behaviour but them you go on to try and excuse their behaviour.

No chapping the door and running away is inexcusable, regardless of the why.

However, unlike a lot of posters I also do not see their behaviour as deliberately malicious.

That is the difference.

Just because they see it as a 'bit of fun' doesn't stop it from being deliberately malicious.

The whole purpose of this is to upset people by winding them up and unsettling them. They deliberately set out to do this.

In my opinion, malicious means intending to cause harm. I think it seems like they thought it would be funny and didn't realise it would upset or unsettle people.

Again, that doesn't excuse it and I'd definitely go through DC for doing it, but not everyone is malicious. Some children just don't think.

Sorry, it should read 'malicious in nature.'

But they did want to cause harm! Even if it was just to to wind him up!
At 13 they should have known better.

Again, I think there's a difference between doing something because they thought it was funny without thinking to doing something because they deliberately knew it was going to upset someone.

Either way, they aren't the only ones in the wrong here and people need to acknowledge this mans behaviour was disgusting.

However, that seems to be something that a lot of people here are refusing to do because 13 year olds should have more capacity over their actions than a 19 year old man.

Sailor you appear to be one of the very few PP's on here that understands the point I was trying to make in this post.

I have not at any point excused the behaviour of the girls, I have stated how I found it disgusting and acted upon it immediately after finding out what they were up to, as did DM when my sister returned home. I have not at all tried to minimise what they did as it what uncalled for and they have no excuse for the way the acted.
My post was not to ask if the girls were being unreasonable or immature or nasty because obviously they were, I have not tried to make light of the filming just simply given more clarification to what the girls film so people see that whilst it's vile to film the behaviour they did, their thought process was a case of 'not thinking' and being very stupid rather than thinking 'let's film him get angry'.
He knew they were behind gate because the camera clearly catches the friend shout 'oh shit he's come out' as she then moves camera to watch sister and in that it catches neighbour through a broken panel, this is how it was clear they were not intentionally trying to film him but instead each other.

I actually wasn't even looking to pull the neighbour up on his violent behaviour by walking over to the gate and kicking it knowing they were hiding behind it, I don't agree that that's the way to retaliate to such a situation but I get he was angry, although lucky for him the girls reacted quickly enough in jumping backwards so were unhurt. I was annoyed with the way he was very rude and aggressive towards myself without giving me any chance to deal with the situation and that is the part I wanted to acknowledge he was wrong about, I mentioned in the post about the gate kicking because it gave context of how aggressive he was.

Everyone involved is or was being unreasonable to some extent. You not least for just moving on and putting it behind you. An insincere apology is of no value. If you apologised on behalf of the girls only because you asdumed you would get a reciprocal apology, then that was insincere. If the boy next door eventually apologises just because you force him to, then that would be insincere.

I do agree that his aggressive behaviour was unacceptable but the lesson for you and your feral darling sisters is that if you behave antisocially sometimes people will respond in kind. No matter how much you argue otherwise, it seems to me your insistance that the neighbours are the more guilty party is excusing and minimising your sisters' behaviour. None of this would have happened if they knew how to behave.

because 13 year olds should have more capacity over their actions than a 19 year old man.

You just summed up exactly what I'm getting at and why I'm cross. It feels many people in here are of the same mind my neighbour and her son are of; it's excusable of a 19 year old adult to lash out violently (whether to scare or actually hurt who knows, but it was still a violent lash out) and then to become extremely rude and aggressive towards a woman whilst their was another teenage girl and a small boy in the home, not to mention being very aggressive again a couple days later when he's not even been provoked by irritating kids.
However the two 13 year old girls (yr 8 so far from adult age) should be held accountable for exactly what they did. Damn straight I agree they should be held accountable, but then so should he.
If they knew better then surely he definitely knew better