Transing a 4 year old

[ShadowChancellor]

On Monday, all the children at my kids school were taught about being transgender because the parent of a reception kid have decided that X is actually Y and are now sending their kid in as the opposite sex and have changed their name.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

No parents were told before this happened. We only found out when the kids came out of school on Monday and told us.

AIBU to a) think that transing a kid at 4 years old is more to do with the parents not liking the fact that their kid prefers girls toys to boys toys and b) that the other parents should've been told before they showed our kids this film and promoted it all in school.

Its caused a lot of confusion with the younger kids who think you can change whether you are a boy or girl just by wishing it and didn't mention at all all of the problems that it can cause.

"This shit sterilizes children"

When people finally wake up to this stark truth then maybe more people will take it upon themselves to really start to question what this agenda is all about.

Dd was telling me about a child, we will call her Sarah, she is 8 and is transgender and wears boy's clothes at home and has boys uniform at school and uses the boys toilets. However, Sarah still wants to be called Sarah because it's a lovely girls name. Sarah's parents are taking her to the doctor to see how Sarah can become a boy.

as Dd said, there is one confused child who doesn't really know if they are transgender or not but the parents are going too far IMO and DDs.

From what you say, Atheist, poor little Sarah is not being well served. Parents who push transition forward can do a lot of damage. Hopefully, Sarah will not qualify for medication yet. Don't know what age they start puberty blockers but it would have to be pretty young considering that lots of girls start their periods at 11. It's a scary prospect. The DSM checklist of symptoms that doctors have to go through to decide whether a child is trans is so vague it could cover umpteen children. The medical ethics of all this horrify me.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive

what an appauling damaging message! Totally enforcing gender stereotypes

Why can't boys who like "girl things" and dresses be a boy who likes dolls and dresses? Boys are allowed to like those things too
And what if you're a girl who doesn't like those things, are you no longer a girl. Being a girl is not about liking girly things and girly clothes FFS

Appauling! I'ld be very angry if this message was given in my kids school

The medical ethics of all this horrify me.

Yes, me too.

And for the record, girls can start their periods at 10 or younger (well, I did - 40 years ago, and puberty is somewhat earlier on average now).
The irreversible damage done is just shocking - to young children being encouraged to 'transition', when what they'd likely need is much less rigid gender roles, and to women caught up in this whole trans-activist shit.

Mine started at 10 too. And I hated it. I hated my breasts too, and having to wear a bra. God, if I'd have heard of binding and puberty blockers I'd have probably wanted them, because I didn't want these womanly things happening to me because I was a boy.

Just a few years later and I was a teenage girl and would have been horrified at being mistaken for a boy.

If anyone is interested in medical ethics, the BMA Medical Ethics Committee holds meetings 4 times a year, the next one being on 28th February 2017. If you do have any questions or queries their website invites you to contact them via phone or email:

www.bma.org.uk/about-us/how-we-work/professional-activities/medical-ethics-committee

BillSykes.

I am a name changer. I was on a thread with you yesterday that got heated. And you helped me out. Thanks for that. I agree with what you say on this post too.

Scottish, so why do laws and ideologies have to be changed for such a tiny minority?

Because they are not actually a tiny minority. They are supported by all men who want to invade women's spaces / don't think women should have any spaces of our own to begin with.

That is the only explanation for what is happening right now.

Those who currently identify as transwomen may be a tiny minority, but once it is firmly established that all a male has to do to be considered a woman is to say so, women's spaces will be flooded by males who identify in. Males who would perhaps even balk at wearing a dress, but are happy enough to lie about some obscure genderfeelz.

The way the transwacktivists work, the fact that the opinions of actual transsexuals with actual dysphoria are disregarded (there are some trans posters on mumsnet who say they don't want this invasion of women's spaces and the transing of children) leaves this as the only possible explanation.

This is not done to help the tiny minority of people who actually have dysphoria about their body, it is done to enforce male control over women.

Because there are lots and lots and lots of men who feel "dysphoric" about women having boundaries and men having to respect those boundaries.

windy

Vestal, on top of that, I also wouldn't underestimate the appeal to certain lefty men how their "inclusivity" could be a gateway to getting laid. Especially convincing lesbian women that they should be having sex with them, but also simply showing off how "right on" they are to heterosexual lefty women

vestal

I think this is why feminists cottoned onto it so quickly, before everyone else (before me).

People who are clued up about feminism have seen this sort of thing time after time. They know the signs. They understand the language. They see the subtleties.

One of the things that really swung it from me was when I was reading a very feminist forum. The women were old hands at deflecting MRAs who they could predict with uncanny accuracy.

They knew exactly what to say and what buttons to push to force the facade to be dropped.

I can honestly say, I was stunned how time after time someone who sounded quite reasonable (to me), often identifying as a male feminist, was given short shrift for telling women what to do and then positively exploded in a volcano of narcissistic rage and abuse.

As an aside, it also highlighted to me how conditioned I and many women are to being nice. These women couldn't give a fuck about being nice. They didn't walk on egg shells, they didn't make excuses or offer reasons for having an opinion. They made it quite clear to interlopers that they had zero interest in listening to what a man had to say, even if he thought he was being reasonable. I thought it was all a little harsh, until I saw how utterly insufferable the men found this attitude. How outraged they were that their opinion wasn't being listened to.

It really made me think.

sally

It's the one with Gallus Meg (can't remember the name, but it's probably well known as I'm always the last one to find out about these things).

It's largely populated by lesbians, which is very refreshing when it comes to women who don't care what men have to say about women's rights.

Funnily enough, Data Lounge (gay men's website) is also fairly educational when it comes to these issues. It's a little graphic, but it's eye openly useful.

I think people in the LGB community see a lot more of this in real life.

given the post upthread a bit about this being a step towards children having 'autonomy' over their sexuality too / peadophila - I was reminded of this point this morning when the news started reporting how some police force reckoned it should decriminalise 'some kinds' of sexual child abuse - simply because they are being overwhelmed by reports and having to arrest so many damned peadophiles - 400 a week.

And this at the same time that the historical child abuse enquiry gets going.

As with autogynophilia, and the male on female violence shown up by the MTT against anyone who complains about the new agenda, it really looks like an attempt to push everything under the carpet because the male orgasm is All Important and male superiority and entitlement to women and childrens bodies should just be ignored.

I mean, I KNOW not all men and everything. But SERIOUSLY. WTF is happening

Just catching up on that radio 5 programme from Sunday. One of the parents interviewed (I say 'parents', but all the people interviewed are mothers) describes her awareness of her child being, to quote, "born in the wrong body":

"This is, like, 18 months old - he's sat there with a fireman's hat on and what have you. I mean look how young he is ... I knew that he was different from a very early age." The BBC interviewer joined in with her saying that the child looked every inch a little boy.

I do rather feel for Polly Carmichael and her team in this; she went into this field to be a clinician, and now is in a bizarre position where she has to explain why it's important to makes assessments before prescribing puberty blockers and hormone treatment. In what other field of medicine to doctors have to justify not giving medication to undiagnosed conditions?

Worried parents can't get support from the NHS as the waiting lists exist as with all branches of medicine. They feel it's all too urgent to wait with this spectre of puberty looming, and look for alternatives. They find Mermaids.

There was some talk a while ago of asking MN to do a campaign to support people like Fish and her child. It's barbaric that the only "help" they're offered is chemo drugs, followed by the likelihood of sterility & a lifetime of medication. These children are expected to make life-changing decisions when they're not even old enough to drive or vote.

What does anyone else think?

YANBU.

I think it's a brilliant idea empress - I don't think they'd do it though. It would definitely be interpreted by some people as transphobic, even though imo it's the exact opposite.

It's disgusting that the only help available is drugs and any other form of help is considered transphobic.

Look at Kenneth Zucker, a psychologist who argues that some gender dysphoria can be treated with counselling was no platformed at U.S. Professional Association for Transgender Health conference and had his clinic shut down. "This belief that gender dysphoria shouldn’t be seen as a psychological issue helped motivate the shuttering of Zucker’s clinic"

thefederalist.com/2017/02/27/threatening-violence-trans-activists-expel-un-pc-research-medical-conference/#.WLRwJg6ofcI.twitter

nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/you-should-watch-the-bbcs-kenneth-zucker-documentary.html

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

WOW. Thats insane. I would definitely be putting in a complaint. if that video had been shown to any child, let alone a bunch of 4 year olds, thats just ridiculous. No wonder so many kids are lining themselves up for sterilization and a lifetime of medical intervention if this is the attitude of schools.

Hows about, if you are a boy and like 'girls clothes/toys' thats just fine, but you are still a boy, as sex is unchangeable and means nothing when it comes to personality and clothes/toy preference?!

The parents should be investigated tbh, it is not healthy to push 'trans' onto children, and no way would a 4 year old even be thinking about changing sex if the parents hadn't drummed it into them.

For any Londoners on the thread, I read an article in the Evening Standard last night where the Deputy Mayor, Joanne McCartney, was talking about the need to encourage girls to keep up STEM subjects.

Joanne McCartney said many girls made the decision that STEM subjects [science, technology, engineering and maths] were not for them when they were as young as seven or eight. She suggested teachers could have regular training to prevent the “unconscious bias” that steered female pupils away from particular subjects.

I think I'm going to email her and include links to videos like this and CBBC pink / blue brain programmes that explicitly promote a very conscious bias.

My daughter wants to be engineer, but doesn't want to be a boy