Transing a 4 year old

[ShadowChancellor]

On Monday, all the children at my kids school were taught about being transgender because the parent of a reception kid have decided that X is actually Y and are now sending their kid in as the opposite sex and have changed their name.

According to my kid they were shown a video that was all about how if you were a boy and liked girl things and girl clothes you were a girl and it was all very positive.

No parents were told before this happened. We only found out when the kids came out of school on Monday and told us.

AIBU to a) think that transing a kid at 4 years old is more to do with the parents not liking the fact that their kid prefers girls toys to boys toys and b) that the other parents should've been told before they showed our kids this film and promoted it all in school.

Its caused a lot of confusion with the younger kids who think you can change whether you are a boy or girl just by wishing it and didn't mention at all all of the problems that it can cause.

it's great for them to be able to call women cunts with impunity

Yes, I have noticed this. When I saw Paris Lees on the Trevor Philips' programme about PC culture, I was really surprised at Lees' venom and attitude towards Germaine Greer. It was aggressive, pointed and quite vicious in intent and tone. And it struck me that I'd never known a biological female that would speak about someone in that way (and I've known a lot of different types of women in my life). In fact, I'd never known a man who'd say something like that in that manner.

It was as though Lees' trans status somehow allowed Lees to behave in a way that wouldn't really be acceptable for either sex. A man would come across as a howling misogynist and a woman just wouldn't say something like that because we tend to be socialised to express ourselves in quieter and less confrontational ways.

It seems to me that the transgender status is allowing a lot of these MTTs to bypass a lot of the typically gendered rules that govern expression. It allows them to express hate in a way that would not be acceptable without extreme censure for either a man or woman.

I also suspect many MTTs either don't know a lot of biological females or have an incredible psychological distance from the women in their lives. It strikes me over and over that they don't actually know how biological adult females really behave, or think, or act. They are working off some sort of hyperreal gross illusion of "womanhood" and that is why so many biological females find the situation so bizarre.

It's all so Alice in Wonderland. And we keep descending further down the rabbit hole.

As I said earlier, if you can persuade people that males are really women and have to be treated as such and visa versa, and you can pass policy and legislation to this end, then you can overturn all sorts of common understandings about class, race, sexuality, creed...

Sometimes I wonder if we are seeing a very similar process to the ones that spread through Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, that we are experiencing the same mechanism that lead to people accepting that Jewish people were traitors and peasants with a peach tree in their garden were kulak enemies of the state.

Werk yes there are some very scary trans women out there!

Looking at all the anti women posters from the march where trans women complained about women talking about their biology is very scary.

Riley J Dennis on line telling women they are transphobic if they have a view on who they may sleep with! Plus telling people that there is no such thing as biological sex. It is all a crock of shit.

Yes, we are down the rabbit hole but also it's the emperor's new clothes, because no one except feminists seems able to say of these bearded men, they are not women!

Nigh night

Having a transgender discussion with four year olds when they can barely read, write, tell the time or spell their own names....

They are too young to understand and it is ridiculous to fill their minds with stereotypical garbage (only girls like pink?), but at some point children do need to be taught about the real world.

Far too many are leaving education these days with closed minds and a lack of knowledge regarding numerous important matters but not at the age of four.

I'll admit that I can't comprehend why/how a child of that age would have the "foresight" required to feel the need to transition but that's my ignorance because the transgender issue isn't something that I am entirely informed on; I know the basics and I sympathise with anyone living with such a mental/emotional "burden".

I don't think there can be any "winners" with regard the OP; A transitioning child coupled with the disgruntled parents of other pupils annoyed that their children have been exposed to a very sensitive topic, but who's right and who's wrong shouldn't be decided on the basis of an outpouring of rage/empathy on the internet!

I actually would go ballistic if this was in my DC school - it seems to be trendy to teach children that gender is an option nowdays.

Dd2 chose, right from the start, to dress like a boy, play with boys things, and be friends with boys only. Often she would cry with longing to be a boy too, and at one point I seriously considered that one day she might want to change gender.

However we taught her that she was (her name) and that was who she was. It didn't matter if she wanted to do boys stuff and look like a boy. She could do all that as a girl. She was given complete freedom to do as she pleased.

Then... puberty hit. And she is no 'different' to any of the other girls. She still dresses in sporty clothes and loves sport, especially football, but she is also very happy to wear her hair long, girls clothes, and hang out with a great group of girls who are also into sport. She's still friends with her old friends who are boys, but as she's so comfortable with boys and so inwardly confident, she seems to get boyfriends quite easily.

I am so glad we didn't 'throw the baby out with the bath water' when she was young by entertaining the merest idea of changing her gender.

As previous posters have said, it is society's attitude and the polarisation of genders that is the problem here. Children need to be children first and foremost. Not boys, or girls.

OP our kids' school tried to implement major changes and the Head/Deputy head stonewalled the parents' objections. It was maddening. Now the issues we had were entirely different from yours, but but we rallied, organised ourselves (and in the process found the vast majority of the teachers were on our side but nervous to speak up) and we demanded evidence to demonstrate that the direction the school was taking was the correct one (of course they couldn't supply it) and in general, we didn't shut up about it. Several months later we managed to get the proposal overturned.

Fight this. It's bullshit. Why should you accept your children being caught up is down, wet is dry and black is white?

being 'taught' not caught.

Section the parents and take the child into care.

I've fought against insidious gender stereotyping all my life and now this. The whole school has now been educated that there are girls toys and boys toys, with state approval.

The discussions around Transgender are so very complex I'm amazed they are showing primary aged children these videos.

My daughter loves football, will not wear a dress or a skirt or pink or anything perceived as girly. She got FIFA 17 for Christmas.

Perhaps she has a boy brain because she likes 'boy' stuff?

I've taught my daughters that there are many ways to be female. It's really very concerning if they are presenting such complex ideas to young children in such a black and white way.

Regarding the school - I would expect them to contact parents before they start discussing transgender identity and I would expect them to show parents the materials they are using in the same way they do for sex education.

This seems to be something that I hear of a lot. Even at such a young age. The parents are the ones making the decision (and it could be they are having professional help with the transition) the school are just making sure that the other pupils understand. Nothing unreasonable there!

TheBogQueen There is a boy who transitioned to female in the US. One of the reasons given was that they loved soccer, a girls game. Go figure.

Gender is a social construct, a hierarchy with females being taught to be passive, kind, pretty and caring. It should be questioned not reinforced.

Tweetypie85

But what is it they are trying to make the other pupils understand?

That you can change sex? You can't.

That you can have a brain of one sex in the body of another? You can't.

You could teach the children about gender dysphoria (although not at four!) especially as it is similar to anorexia, anorexia has been a typical teenage problem. And is well known to spread through social contagion.

Another poster mentioned that as the cases of gender dysphoria have gone up, the ones of anorexia have come down.

The trans-activists campaigned to have gender dysphoria removed from the criteria for being trans. Hence it ending up as self identification.

No one is born in the wrong body.
You either have gender dysphoria, which should be treated, or you are stepping outside your stereotypical gender roles. I absolutely agree we should be promoting the breakdown of gender roles, but not by reinforcing them by saying if you like what the other sex does, you must be the other sex! Seriously, there will be a massive percentage of children fit that category!

What next? Are kids going to be picked on because they're not transgender?

The video at the beginning of this thread struck me.

Three adolescents talking about why gender was so important to their self-expression. They kept using words like I'm unique, I'm different, I want to be accepted.

I couldn't help thinking well that's all very nice love, but when you going to the big wide world no one is going to give a shiney shit how unique you think you are.

Thing whole seems to rest on how you are treated, not how you feel.

If all these kids are going to be running around saying I'm unique, treat me like I'm unique. Someone is going to get rude awakening.

I think I had it when the gender 'gendervex' (I think it was that) was described as having multiple genders all of which are unidentifiable.

And everyone's got to magically know which one you are that day because, you know, it's rude to ask.

Are there any international MNetters on this thread? DO trans women infringe on women's spaces in other EU countries, or outside of Europe? It seems the US have similar issues, but how about France, Italy, Germany, Poland, Russia, India, China? Are there TAs there? Is this a global phenomenon?

So many gender 'identities' but everyone knows which 50% of human race needs to keep quiet, scrub floors, and wipe arses.

Not these transwomen Rail they are more Sex in the City, like.

Are kids going to be picked on because they're not transgender?

Already happening.

Copied from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/2854657-proud-of-ds-s-response-to-trans-nonsense

14/02/2017 20:42 Ouriana

My son is 12 and has a friend at school, a lesbian who is into anime and gaming and has been completely ostracised by most the school for refusing to admit she is trans.

Because she fits into a more traditional male gender role her refusal to trans is seen as transphobic and shes been bullied awfully for her transphobia.

Its utterly heartbreaking how confused this has all become in the minds of some young people.

It is unreasonable if you giving children the impression that there are boys things and girls things to go with a 'boy' brain or 'girl' brain.That is magical thinking, identity politics dogma. And girls lose out.

I would fully support an individual going through this if it makes them more comfortable in their skin. Of course.

But to present these complex notions of identity to primary aged children is misguided because the discussions and ideas presented are so reduced that you end up with old fashioned stereotypes.

I don't want my daughter thinking - gosh, I played football in the league with the boys does that means I'm a boy?

Railgunner 😂

The whole Trans trend is akin to brainwashing.

Just watching that I Am Lily video, at 1:40 that is such a weirdly coy pose. And which kids at that age need a bikini??

Im shocked by the extent of Transphobia on mumsnet.

If changing gender is now a human right then everyone just has to get used to the fact that your school kids will be taught along side trans kids.
Even if you pull your kids from seeing videos, you cant stop the teachers talking to your kids about the subject on a daily basis.

If you are not happy with it, then either home school your children or move to a less tolerant country.

So it's now transphobic to say that boys can like dolls, dresses and pink without being a girl?

That's such a regressive view. I'd say those are the views of less, not more, tolerant countries.

How incredibly sexist. So my son has lots of female friends and plays with all kinds of toys including flowers and dolls house, does that mean when he starts school they'll feel entitled to imply he's not a proper boy?

"DO trans women infringe on women's spaces in other EU countries, or outside of Europe? It seems the US have similar issues, but how about France, Italy, Germany, Poland, Russia, India, China?"

Here in France, trans people had to prove irreversible surgery to demand a legal change in their sex status up until last year. There was a change proposed around mid-2016 that removed the need for surgery but still had certain conditions. There is no move to push MTTs into female spaces that I have noticed.