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PROUD of ds's response to trans nonsense!

(52 Posts)
GoodyGoodyGumdrops Tue 14-Feb-17 19:13:11

10yo ds was delighted today, because at last his hair is just long enough to be gathered in a scrunchy.

So he had his hair gathered back and was wearing a colourful, gender-neutral jumper, and was playing with 10yo and 12yo neighbour children when I overheard them asking him if he was trans. Not nastily at all, just puzzled.

Ds "What do you mean?"
NCh "Are you a girl in a boy's body?"
Ds laughs.
NCh "But you've got long hair, and you often wear girly clothes, and now you've got a ponytail."
Ds "Boys can have ponytails. What you wear doesn't change who you are. I'm a boy and I like long hair and I like bright colours."
NCh "Don't you care if people think you're a girl?"
Ds shrugs. "It's silly if people mix up what you wear with what you are. It's not like my clothes are a uniform, or something."

Cue debate about gender, sex and behaviour. Clearly all three children have heard something about trans issues, but don't really understand. Ds, though, is at least clear that he doesn't have to restrict himself to gender-norms.

Pleasejustgetdressed Tue 14-Feb-17 20:07:36

Supposing your child were to meet someone who described themselves as trans, how would they react?

taratill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:11:56

It's great that your son doesn't give a hoot what people think about what he wears.

I'm not sure that this means anything about how he would react to a person who describes themselves as Trans. Children imho are much more accepting than adults are.

taratill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:13:36

however the fact that you call it trans nonsense in your title does worry me.

Ouriana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:13:57

I think youre son has a really healthy attitude and a good understanding that we do not have to fit into any gender norms. If only everyone could think that way!

RJnomore1 Tue 14-Feb-17 20:16:19

But the idea that trans is about long hair and particular colour clothes is nonsense!

Ouriana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:16:20

Taratill the accepted definition of trans now is not so much some one who does not accept their body or who suffers dysphoria, but someone who doesnt fit into gender "norms".

I assume thats the nonsence op is referring too, telling children they are trans because they do not stick to rigid gender defined roles.

taratill Tue 14-Feb-17 20:19:37

ouriana, if that is the case then fine. I thought OP meant she thought being trans is nonsense.

Pleasejustgetdressed Tue 14-Feb-17 20:25:47

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what she meant. And I'm very very bored of this trans-hating fuckwittery.

SuperBeagle Tue 14-Feb-17 20:27:31

I have a hard time believing any kids nowadays would be at all surprised to see a boy with longer hair. It's not uncommon.

aFullOnMonet Tue 14-Feb-17 20:31:08

But the idea that trans is about long hair and particular colour clothes is nonsense!

What would you say it is about then? Dsyphoria of sex characteristics is no longer necessary. It seems to mainly be about superficial stuff to me.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 14-Feb-17 20:35:41

DD7 is the same, she has short hair and is often heard patiently explaining that girls can have short hair and wear trousers to school, and they are still girls and correcting her teacher on the difference between sex and gender blush

EighthElement Tue 14-Feb-17 20:37:14

My son is 11 and i dont think has even heard the term transgender.

EighthElement Tue 14-Feb-17 20:39:18

Sabine lenz
garrett mallon
maureen lynch

RJnomore1 Tue 14-Feb-17 20:39:57

Depends who you talk to.

Ouriana Tue 14-Feb-17 20:42:42

My son is 12 and has a friend at school, a lesbian who is into anime and gaming and has been completely ostracised by most the school for refusing to admit she is trans.

Because she fits into a more traditional male gender role her refusal to trans is seen as transphobic and shes been bullied awfully for her transphobia.

Its utterly heartbreaking how confused this has all become in the minds of some young people.

F1GI Tue 14-Feb-17 20:45:48

It's quite unusual for a 10yo boy to like to have long hair in a scrunchie. My ds is 10 and of the boys in his year (approx 30 of them), none have long hair. I think it was a reasonable question for a 10/12yo child to ask your ds, whether he was trans. They didn't ask it in a prejudiced way presumably, just curiousity at a choice you don't see every day.

tubasinthemoonlight Tue 14-Feb-17 21:10:07

I am hoping the OP did intend "trans nonsense" to be the assumption that anyone who wears clothes or has a hairstyle not normally linked with their birth gender must be trans. I would hope so because if it was intended to mean that actually being or self identifying as trans is nonsense; and/or conveying this opinion to their own children, then the OP and her child may be accused of transphobia at some point by voicing their opinion that it is "trans nonsense" to identify as the opposite gender. It is likely that as numbers of trans people increase we will all eventually meet a transgender person whether we are aware of them or not.

My son, aged 20, is transgender and has been living his life as such for over six years now. Thankfully most people in his life are unaware as he doesn't feel it is necessary for others to know about it and doesn't wish to discuss it.

GoodyGoodyGumdrops Tue 14-Feb-17 21:53:45

As it happens, we know an adult MTF who has completely transitioned 'externally' (I don't know the accepted word) and is partway through fully transitioning physically.

Ds has asked her why she didn't just wear what she wanted, and she tried to explain that there was a lot more to it than just how you present on the outside.

But whereas ds's way of dressing and wearing his hair would once have been either the cause of teasing, or just straightforwardly accepted as his quirkiness, it's nowadays assumed to mean that he is unhappy with who he fundamentally is.

That's why it's trans-nonsense.

Body-dysphoria is a genuine illness, I'm sure, but being different is not.

aFullOnMonet Wed 15-Feb-17 08:15:40

Ouriana that is horrible about your ds's friend. I hope the school are dealing with it.

ChuckSnowballs Wed 15-Feb-17 08:29:17

It's quite unusual for a 10yo boy to like to have long hair in a scrunchie.

That is the crux of the issue though isn't it? Because something is seen to be unusual it is seen as an external display of gender preference. whereas it is just some people like short hair and some like long hair.

I used to [and still do] like tools, and making stuff. I got my first penknife at about 7 and was over the moon with it. I would mend things that were broken, and my toys consisted of everything from soldering irons to screwdrivers. Doesn't make me Trans. I was always a girl, grew up to be a female engineer and I just like those things. Now it is chainsaws and cordless drills and I have my own shed filled to the rafters with my tools. I don't sit there wishing I was a bloke, I wear a dress if I fancy it, jeans if I don't and get on with making stuff. It is not wrong, it is what I love to do. If it was 'wrong' then I don't want to be right.

GoodyGoodyGumdrops Wed 15-Feb-17 08:58:27

refusing to admit she is trans

Disgraceful! What business is it of anyone else's? I hope the school are supporting her and stringently applying anti-bullying sanctions.

I'm so glad not to be growing up now. I was very confused about my identity as a child and well into adulthood, both personal identity and gender, and I totally lacked emotional resilience. Now I understand that my poor fit was because I am an Aspie and I think differently. But then? I have no doubt that I would have ended up edging towards trans, and possibly ending up even more unhappy. (Or perhaps I would have been diagnosed 30y earlier. Now that would have been a blessing!)

Itwasthenandstillis Wed 15-Feb-17 09:08:44

F1GI - ridiculous. my son is 10, very boyish wit long blond hair. He will tell people he is a boy very clearly if there is any confusion. It has taken a lot of confidence an self esteem to deal with the name calling an bullying and stick with his long hair -which a lot of kids do not have. I am very proud of him.

Not related to my son but I really think something is going wrong when people are pected to label themselves as transfer because they like things that are normally associated with the other biological sex. Thee is nothing that makes a boy a girl just because he has a preference - temporary or permanent - for long hair and bright coloured clothes.

Ouriana Wed 15-Feb-17 10:52:05

The school will not help because she upsets and triggers the trans kids by not fitting in the box, making her the bully.

Everytime she explains she can wear pants, have short hair and fancy women yet still not be a man she is, without meaning too, questioning the gender narrative that the rest of the children seem to take with deathly seriousness.

Luckily shes joined a little group of friends including my ds who are more concerned with tech than people!

aFullOnMonet Wed 15-Feb-17 17:47:29

I'm very glad she's found a good set of friends and good on her for resisting the push to turn trans. Sadly I know of several young adult, lesbians who have been pushed into transitioning when it was not the right path for them. The bullying is pure and simple homophobia, which is a hate crime in the eyes of the law still. It's also sexist but few people seem to care about sexism.

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