To be shocked at 7 year olds behaviour?

[Pollyanna12345]

DS just turned 7 last month.
Quite a loud extrovert personality but up to now had no issues with his behaviour aside from not being able to sit still for long so visits to restaurants and so on were always quite tricky.
We are more positive parents than anything else although don't like to label but have always done all we can to suit their needs ( DS2 is 4 and completely different character )
so have left restaurants and places where he can't seem to behave well in many a time
The last few weeks have been hard
School still seems fine and only just had PE and nothing mentioned other than lacks concentration at times and is quite fearless of danger but generally only does things he knows he's capable of so not really a concern but he just doesn't seem to listen to much we say and has an answer for absolutely everything
He argues back like an adult not a child and is extremely logical but not very emotional
A few examples are :
Throwing a massive rock in a farm as he was insistent it was not a rock, just a soft mass of mud so when it exploded it wouldn't break into pieces, it would just fall apart so I didn't need to worry it would smash anything
Spelling out things to his brother like " shut up " phonetically when he gets annoyed and when told off says he shouldn't be told off as his brother can't understand what he's saying
Ran past a door and accidentally shut his dad's finger in it and when explained he should apologise as although accidental he shouldn't have been running through the hallway - that was his dad's fault for coming out of the toilet at that specific moment in time
He also blames anyone and everyone for things that go wrong, so if he falls over someone distracted him for instance and takes no responsibility for his actions
He has a big personality and we've always been careful to embrace it but I wonder now if the respect is actually lacking because of that!
Anyone else with a " spirited " child like mine??

Hi OP. In some respects your ds sounds a little like mine who has always had the biggest personality in the room.

We have had to work a lot with ds (now 13) to make him understand the impact of his behaviour on other people - if he is too loud it impacts on the learning of other people. We also tell the teachers that they should feel free to tell him to shut up or sit him on his own or whatever they feel the need to - neither he or we will be offended and I will back them up 100%.

There definitely comes a time when children like this need to be squashed a little bit or they become overbearing and difficult to deal with. It's hard to do, but I think you need to.

You are just going to ignore the posters who really rightly say he sounds like a spoilt brat who is insolent and cheeky due to ineffectual parenting.

Crack on .. he's going to be such a delight to everyone

Misbehaving in restaurants- Kids with ASD in my experience (not just of my own DC), tend to find eating out/cinema trips, supermarkets etc really challenging, and may struggle to behave in acceptable ways even when they desperately want to be there.
Dc1 was about 10/11 before he could "fit in" in these situations, and his younger brother, although improving, still needs very firm and consistent parenting when out and about...

Unfortunately, they only learn to behave by being out and about so as a parent, I can find myself taking DC out somewhere for socialisation purposes, it's no fun at all for me because I spend my entire time and energy guiding his behaviour and trying to instil a sense of "this is how we behave in restaurants" in a quiet way without disturbing other people (DC knows unacceptable behaviour will mean leaving).

Oh dear. A spirited child with plenty of self confidence and a mind of his own. One that has been "positively parented" too. Precisely the reason I avoid kid-friendly eateries, and take my holidays in term time .

Your child, so your choices where parenting and behaviour management is concerned, but do be prepared for other people to react differently to his ebulliant self-expression.

OP you perhaps need to explain to him that if he hurts someone accidentally they would prefer 'I'm sorry' to an explanation as to why it's not his fault.
Best not to throw anything around on a farm, rock or mud, it's not a playground.
As the older sibling try to appreciate that a small brother can be annoying at time. Can you suggest ways for him to deal with it, as the more mature child.
He sounds rather self conscious and embarrassed at making any mistake. Most people really don't care about 'clever' 'logical' arguments from a 7 year old. The child being kind and happy is more important imho.

Sounds pretty much like a normal 7 year old who hasn't been given good boundaries and has little respect.

"has a nice group of friends although some of their parents have said that he gets away with more than theirs ever would"

You know what that means don't you OP? It means he's that child and you are that parent.

It means they think he's naughty and if he were theirs they would be applying stricter boundaries and more discipline because his bahaviour would not be acceptable in their homes.

I think you should perhaps listen. Not everyone is finding your DS as adorable as you

mycolourispurple
My "evidence" is years of teaching 350 diffferent 12-18 years olds every week.
Many many of the out of control, smoking weed in year 8, downright rude, underacheiving and disrespectful young people are only like that becuase they have never been taught boundaries, or the fact they are not the only person on the planet because their dear parent considers them spirited, self confident and with a big personality.

Totally agree with Bitoutofpractice, that was parent code to say your child is hard work.

I'm not ignoring just not responding to those calling a child things like a " brat " as quite rude in my opinion to call a child such a name
We speak everything through and he is given consequences such as not having certain treats and days out but just not the shouty parents screaming " your iPads gone " like I hear most of the time that's all
He is given lots of guidance as is his brother but he is very self confident and does believe he is right most of the time
I wasn't saying his logic is always correct, of course not as he's only 7, but I meant he thinks things through before arguing such as the spelling out of the words instead of just saying them to his younger brother as he believed by doing that he wouldn't know therefore wouldn't get told off
I'm sorry but how old is the child who is left in the garden? I find this hard to imagine this having any effect but learning fear of the parent of being put outside?

I'm fine with them thinking he's hard work, I think theirs are too in different ways.
But they can't find him too hard as they actively encourage plays and so on so I meant that he isnt unpopular as he's invited to parties and has lots of friends

even though he has a valid point, he can't always be right

Just tell him that.

Discussing and negotiating with your child are fine, if that is your parenting style. It needs to go along side an understanding that your decision is final (since you are the adult so will have a more sophisticated understanding of a situation) so when you say no, that is not up for discussion. When you have said neither yes or no, then we can talk, discuss and negotiate. But no means no and will not change.

You also sound like your need to establish consequences. So if not taking stuff off the child (I don't do that either), then what? I'd be furious if the rest of the family missed out on a meal in a restaurant because of DS7's behaviour.

What were the consequences for your son in this situation?

My 7 year old (I also have children aged 12 11 and 2) would have been immediately sent to his room, seperated and isolated from the "fun" of the rest of the household. I would not have tolerated any voiced dislike of the meal served at home, because he lost any right to complain when he stopped us staying in the restaurant. He'd have lost his place for turn-taking. So his brother would get first go on the Xbox, his sister first go on the kindle. And generally id have given him a pissed off very disappointed attitude.

In addition I would expect a heart-felt and genuine apology. Alongside some (unprompted) verbal explanation that shows he understands the resons for my disappointment in his behaviour.

If he spoilt a trip out to a restaurant that was meant to be in celebration of something, I'd also expect an apology card/letter to the person affected.

I'm not shocked . I have a ahem spirited Dd who's 12 and I could tell some stories. I think.people are right about trying to nip it in the bud but, from personal experience, coming down hard doesn't work with this personality type because it's counterproductive.

Certainly, you have to pick your battles and don't over explain as it gives them more fuel with which to argue. I also suggest discussing things after the gate when everyone is calm. Sometimes that makes one appear to be permissive but you need a thicker skin and parent for yourself and your child rather than pander to perceived norms

Oldbirdy, both my DC had demonstrable theory of mind within the normal age range, but both were diagnosed (one Asperger, one ASD, they are very similar boys but the "label" has changed).

I read some interesting research about theory of mind testing, it suggested that the test was the problem (sally-Ann not very motivating for kids on the spectrum), and that different scenarios set up to show theory of mind (in a way that the individual engaged with), showed that kids with autism do develop theory of mind at round about the same age that neurotrophical kids do.

It's not about fear. I know damn well that my DC don't fear me.

Sorry Polly I think you have your mommy goggles on. He doesn't sound spirited and adult and confident to me. He sounds like hard work and a bit too big for his boots.

Most children will behave the way your ds does if someone is foolish enough to indulge them. He's not "spirited" or unique or fantastically intelligent, he's an average 7 year old boy who runs rings round his mother.

If you don't want him to become a total pita take charge of the situation. I work with young dc and they have to take on board that they're not the centre of the universe.

When I get "logic backchat" from the children I work with I use a very calm but strong tone and use language like "I am the person in charge here. To ensure your welfare and safety you will listen to my instructions." If you have a whole class to watch this nonsense needs to be shutdown quickly.

" I meant that he isnt unpopular as he's invited to parties and has lots of friends"

Prepare for that to change as kids get older and sick of him being a know-it-all bossy boots

But putting a child in a garden until they do as you wish surely will only teach them not to behave in that way so they don't get put outside? that just doesn't make much sense to me but I'm happy for you to tell me I'm wrong if it makes sense to you as everyone sees things differently
He does get consequences with lack of treats and days out and so on and he is a lovely little boy 99% of the time, it's just his arguing back that's tricky as he seems to always have an answer
He is loving and kind and wrote a sorry note off his own back for hurting his dad's finger a few hours after - it just seems at the time he reacts by shifting the blame instead of admitting any fault

Sounds like a right pain in the arse.

He sounds socially immature to me, probably because he has been allowed to think the world revolves around him.

It showseems he realises he was wrong then . My DD is like this if you challenge her in the heat of the moment

I agree with Magzmarsh, he sounds like a normal, average 7 year old who is being allowed to rule the roost in the absence of any other rules.
I have friends who "positive parent", I'm not sure they use that term but it sounds like the same approach, we meet up a couple of times a year and their son is more badly behaved every time I see him, I'm sure he'll be exactly the same as your son at 7.

"But putting a child in a garden until they do as you wish surely will only teach them not to behave in that way so they don't get put outside? that just doesn't make much sense to me"

Well yes, that's the whole point.. it teaches them NOT to behave that way.

Sorry Op but I think its completely unreasonable for a 7 year old to not sit and behave in a restaurant ....my 2 dcs have sat and behaved well in restaurants since 4 years old, because l taught them to, hence they also sit and behave well in class, at other peoples houses, on buses etc.

l am amazed you would get up and leave rather than teach good manners, are you not concerned what he will be like at 16 years old?

Of course it is up to you how you parent, but spare a thought for poor teachers, who have the difficult job of controlling 30 odd, 7 year olds and actually teaching them, which as parents we so desperately want the teachers to do.......do you still think it is a good thing to have a child who does not sit and behave when asked?

In my opinion there is no such thing as a spirited child just well behaved and badly behaved. Most children are spirited and lively ( and lovely)
that does not excuse bad behaviour.

My son had a stage of this kind of back talk about a year ago, it is normal at this age and it's good that they question things and don't blindly follow every instruction. BUT you need to find a balance. If I was having the rock/ mud conversation with my son I would have listened to his reasoning and then simply said : I don't care what it is you are not throwing it. Then he would have known there's was no more arguments he would not have thrown the stone, he would have sulked a bit but he would know I am the parent and I make the decisions. And it is not him who can argue his way to get to do whatever he wants. Or if he would have thrown the rock he would have had a punishment. No hitting or screaming but something would have been taken away. Because if you don't teach them where the line is how will they know not to cross it.