To be shocked at 7 year olds behaviour?

[Pollyanna12345]

DS just turned 7 last month.
Quite a loud extrovert personality but up to now had no issues with his behaviour aside from not being able to sit still for long so visits to restaurants and so on were always quite tricky.
We are more positive parents than anything else although don't like to label but have always done all we can to suit their needs ( DS2 is 4 and completely different character )
so have left restaurants and places where he can't seem to behave well in many a time
The last few weeks have been hard
School still seems fine and only just had PE and nothing mentioned other than lacks concentration at times and is quite fearless of danger but generally only does things he knows he's capable of so not really a concern but he just doesn't seem to listen to much we say and has an answer for absolutely everything
He argues back like an adult not a child and is extremely logical but not very emotional
A few examples are :
Throwing a massive rock in a farm as he was insistent it was not a rock, just a soft mass of mud so when it exploded it wouldn't break into pieces, it would just fall apart so I didn't need to worry it would smash anything
Spelling out things to his brother like " shut up " phonetically when he gets annoyed and when told off says he shouldn't be told off as his brother can't understand what he's saying
Ran past a door and accidentally shut his dad's finger in it and when explained he should apologise as although accidental he shouldn't have been running through the hallway - that was his dad's fault for coming out of the toilet at that specific moment in time
He also blames anyone and everyone for things that go wrong, so if he falls over someone distracted him for instance and takes no responsibility for his actions
He has a big personality and we've always been careful to embrace it but I wonder now if the respect is actually lacking because of that!
Anyone else with a " spirited " child like mine??

My DS's behaviour is often inappropriate in public because he feels anxious. He might yell out rude words, will climb about under tables, pretend to be an animal or can be very inappropriate. He doesn't look anxious, he looks like he's being naughty but he has Aspergers. I'm still learning the best ways to try and manage his behaviours better. I would say unless you were a very experienced paediatrician or psychologist, most people would never guess my DS is autistic. Even my mum and sisters had never seen any signs. Like your son, it has become much more noticeable to me as he's got older that his behaviour is no longer appropriate for his age and he can be very different to his friends. Unless you're an expert, I cannot see why you're dismissing any chance of special needs? It seems that you're thinking of the more obvious signs of autism or ADHD, when he may be very high-functioning and able to use his intelligence to blend in most of the time. Please, do look into these conditions, as many, many people have suggested, it seems very likely there is something else going on.

We speak to him and explain where he's wrong and so on but don't do the whole shouting / hitting / taking away xyz that other parents seem to

You are contradicting yourself now!

It's hard to know what other things you should be doing without knowing a bit more about the behaviour. So in the restaurant, what is he doing? What happens for it to get the the point where you remove him? Is he bothered about sitting in the car?

I did post on your other thread before it was deleted and I think if you want to go with the 'positive parenting' approach this is great, I do think it would be a good idea for you to read up on it though. There are loads of good books and blogs out there. Look up 'positive parenting', 'positive discipline', and read about logical consequences and how to deal with rudeness, bad behaviour etc. This should give you some ideas on how to deal with it.

Positive parenting is not permissive parenting and it's not a case of deciding between being permissive and being authoritarian - there is a middle ground. You just need to find that middle ground and find strategies that work for you.

Don't be in denial though - he's not being 'spirited', he's behaving badly, and you're not doing him any favours later in life if you let it continue. I think you know this and that's why you've started more than one thread on the issue. Good luck, I'm sure with the right intentions and a bit of psychological trickery clever parenting you'll be able to turn this around.

You don't need to shout, OP. Setting appropriate boundaries to begin with is far more important.

• Don't answer back
• Not up for discussion
• Not a negotiation
• Option A or Option B? There is no Option C
• That's enough
• I won't ask again
• That was unacceptable
• I don't want to hear about it

In some situations, the above phrases need to be in your vocabulary, however alien they might sound.

OP - you asked what else you should be doing. It's hard to offer advise without specific examples. Here's one you ex offered:
"Ran past a door and accidentally shut his dad's finger in it and when explained he should apologise as although accidental he shouldn't have been running through the hallway - that was his dad's fault for coming out of the toilet at that specific moment in time"

I think you should in the above case:

• Insist that he apologizes for accidents
• Insist that he repeats back to you that it is not his dad's fault for "coming out of the toilet at that specific time" because other people have the right to move about the house, just as he does. Insist that he says it. Several times.

Make sure that when you are insisting that he repeats these sentences, you are insistent but calm. No yelling. Wait him out until he is calm, if need be.

Just a suggestion, I am not a psychiatrist, just a mom. I did that with DD1 when she was 11-13yo. Took a while, but eventually she took on board what she was made to repeat every time she misbehaved. She is a lovely 16yo now.

You know that your child is badly behaved not 'spirited' and you need to praise good behaviour and tell him off for being naughty. If he is as bright as you say he is, explain that he will be punished for being rude or deliberately destructive and be prepared to follow through.

The alternative is that he will end up seriously injuring someone or cause criminal damage.

I went to soft play today and a boy about 6 ran into and pushed over my toddler. Toddler was very upset but not hurt thank goodness. The mum stood there like a wet weekend and told me that her son is just very boisterous and spirited and she hoped my toddler would be ok without getting an apology as there was no way her son would come back and give one. Then she left, trailing after him as he smashed into other kids leaving a trail of crying kids behind him. I remembered this post and I did some internal tutting

On the one hand, I think the OP should consider that trained professionals in the NHS will take years (4.5 yrs avg I thing NAS say) to diagnose ASD and find it particularly hard in academically average or gifted children as others have said.

Once upon a time I said "well of course DC can't have Autism, they're so talkative!" Oh, how I cringe now!

On the other hand, I'm failing to see why a 7yo who can't behave at restaurants is such a big deal!? I wouldn't expect all of them to.

He wouldn't ever hurt kids at play areas so not a fair comparison
He doesn't hurt anyone snd never has and would say dorry for bumping into someone ss he has in the past happily if going too fast and so on

He wouldn't ever hurt kids at play areas so not a fair comparison
He doesn't hurt anyone snd never has and would say dorry for bumping into someone ss he has in the past happily if going too fast and so on

But you said he hurt your husband, - yes accidentally - but because he was misbehaving, then he refused to accept that it was his misbehaviour that caused the accident.

So although he may not deliberately hurt others his inability to accept that his behaviour has consequences and he needs to control it, he determination that nothing is his fault, may well lead to other children being hurt.

So, what if he's going too fast and actually harms someone? An apology is worthless if he's not learning from the experience.

What if, for example, he was going to fast on a scooter in a residential street and knocked an elderly person over? I don't see how a 'sorry' is supposed to make up for the broken hip/wrist.

As far as I can see, your child thinks he's always right (not a very nice trait in anyone) and has boundary issues. Tackling this at 7 will be a whole lot easier than at 13.

That's true about his dad, I was just explaining that with other children especially younger he is careful and apologises if he knocks someone by accident
The restaurant stuff was meant just not sitting down, being too loud, messing around, that kind of stuff.
This isn't all the time, but sometimes.
I will take on board things that have been said, I do think he thinks he is superior at times and that's not acceptable

So with the restaurant, I'm assuming you are saying 'sit still on your chair' 'talk in a quiet voice please' etc, he doesn't do it, you then say something like 'if you get down from your chair / shout out one more time, we will have to leave and sit in the car' he does it again then you leave????
It's hard for people to be constructive without knowing a bit more of what goes on.
Are the instructions you give specific enough? or are you saying 'behave nicely. If you carry on messing about, we will leave' rather than giving more direct instructions.

When you say he thinks he is superior at times, what do you think has caused him to think like this?

I think they are direct enough, I go from asking nicely to letting him know the behaviour isn't acceptable now and if it continues he will have to leave and if it does he leaves.
Obviously in the meantime I try hard to make sure that doesn't happen by entertaining him and distracting him from things that I know he will find hard to resist as he gets bored easily but we don't bring technology outside with us even though see this works for lots of people, it hasn't been something I wanted to encourage.
By superior, I do take on board that the positive parenting aspect has led the children to think of us as one unit rather than parents / children and whereas that doesn't seem an issue for youngest as he doesn't like to be in trouble in any sense and is by nature quieter / placid anyway, I am wondering if it's just too much talking and not enough swift action to nip things in the bud for my eldest
I'm sorry for annoying people by starting this thread, I shouldn't have done it in response to another as it wasn't laid out well and gave half as story

Yes of course and he doesn't push the boundaries with things like danger, he does seem to pick and choose when he behaves well and not hence me seeming a little dismissive of any SEN issues as he seems to control it when he wants to

"seems to control it when he wants to" is really typical of many kids with ASD, ADHD or SPD.

But you've clearly made up your mind.

Is he bothered by leaving? If you say he gets bored in there and there's no technology in restaurant (which I do agree with) is the leaving early something that he would want to avoid?
Could you use something else like no technology when he gets home?

I'm assuming you've tried telling him what behaviour is expected before you go in the restaurant?

When you say things he finds hard to resist,can you give any examples?

You say you try hard entertaining him and distracting him from things-this does sound more like what you would have to do with a toddler than a 7 year old. Obviously you need to do some entertaining but just general conversation, maybe small colouring in book, magazine would normally be sufficient while you wait for the meal.

Genuine question, I don't understand what is meant by the phrase 'a big personality'?

Sorry but my 7 year old definitely needs entertaining in a restaurant little. And yes, I will go for electronic devices when I have to! A magazine wouldn't hold his attention for 5 mins. I have often been exasperated that he just doesn't seem to settle to things the way my nieces did. Maybe kids are just different?

By a big personality I meant an extrovert, always has lots to say, makes jokes to make others laugh, happy to be the centre of attention, that side of things.
I'm not saying they're aren't any additional needs but I don't think there is any indication currently
Husbands mother is a trained SENCO so we do have someone trained who sees him regularly who says he is similar to her other son at that age and it was just a personality trait as my husband is very relaxed and never spoke up against authority, just a conformist personality really.

Thanks Pollyanna.

Ocelot, I didn't mean I was against anyone using technology if they want/need to, more just I could see where op was coming from saying she didn't want to go down that road.
A magazine wouldn't be every kids choice, was just an example but surely there is something that you could find for most 7 year olds (depending on what they like/are interested in) that would keep them entertained while you wait for a meal. I agree, most would need entertaining but not in the same way as you would with a toddler where you're working really hard to distract them from getting into mischief and it's a big effort to get them to stay at the table, etc. Not to the point where you have to leave the restaurant on numerous occasions. I am really surprised that this is typical at that age but maybe I'm just completely off with this.