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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU in thinking this is not racist?

549 replies

KungFuPandaWorksOut16 · 14/02/2017 14:02

At a baby group, and one of the mothers starts commenting on a father who is there, mentioning how she wouldn't say no etc. Then asked what we think
One friend turned round and said no he isn't my cup of tea.
Original lady asked why
She responded she normally prefers white men, not black men.
Original lady tells her she should be disgusted in herself and having a view like that is highly racist. She then asked me do I agree if she was racist in what she said.

I told her I wouldn't view this as racist, just personal preference.
Is this actually racist? Or is original lady just being a bit over the top.

OP posts:
VeryBitchyRestingFace · 14/02/2017 14:56

Not racist. Personal preference.

However, it was a bit racially insensitive and I'm surprised someone would just out with such an opinion, especially in company they don't necessarily know well.

This sounds like a very exciting baby group.

ShoutOutToMyEx · 14/02/2017 14:56

I get what you're saying NoCapes. Maybe I am overanalysing - I like a bit of introspection at the best of times!

But it does still feel wrong to me, for the reasons I explained.

JJbum · 14/02/2017 14:57

Because preferences over who people find attractive quite often come down to one characteristic."

And if that one characteristic is race or skin colour then their preference is a racial one. It's racist.

Imagine how it feels to be told you are not attractive just because of your skin colour. Imagine how it feels to grow up and live in a society that depicts all the features stereotypically associated with your race as ugly ones. Imagine how it feels to be a young child who looks in the mirror and hates what they see back, simply because of the subliminal messages absorbed from the world about them about their skin colour. Imagine how it feels knowing that "personal preferences" mean that you are statistically less likely to get a date and worse statistically less likely to be hired for jobs than your lighter skinned or white peers?

What a position of privilege those claiming it "is just personal preference" are coming from. That type of insidious, casual racism and widespread acceptance of it is so damaging. And so depressing.

Farandole · 14/02/2017 14:57

I agree with PP that this sort of statement should be kept in your head. It will be perceived either as racist (perfectly valid), rude (perfectly valid) or ignorant ( you get the drift).

MuseumOfCurry · 14/02/2017 14:57

The woman who was interrogating the other woman about her reasons for not finding the father attractive sounds like a troublemaker in any case.

Onthecouchagain · 14/02/2017 14:59

It's not racist at all. It's just preference.

MuseumOfCurry · 14/02/2017 15:01

JJBum you're confusing cultural standards of beauty with personal preferences.

category12 · 14/02/2017 15:02

I think it's racist because it's ruling out a whole group of men as if they were all the same. Doesn't matter if they're nice/tall/fat/thin/fit/intelligent/charismatic - just the skin. Hmm

Thegirlinthefireplace · 14/02/2017 15:02

"The woman who was interrogating the other woman about her reasons for not finding the father attractive sounds like a troublemaker in any case."

This I agree with and was actually my first thought.

BlackeyedSusan · 14/02/2017 15:02

if it wasn't intended to be racist, it can still be perceived as racist. that is the problem. She could have just said not her type.

discussing it was wrong anyway, objectifying the dad in question. not going to make them feel comfortable.

WasabiNell · 14/02/2017 15:03

Reading this thread, am I weird because I literally have no set taste and just go for men I'm attracted to/ who I get on with?! So far I've been out with men who are Jamaican, Pakistani, ginger, olive skinned and current bf is blonde haired and blue eyed Grin

tabulahrasa · 14/02/2017 15:07

"JJBum you're confusing cultural standards of beauty with personal preferences."

Exactly.

I personally don't find certain things attractive (skin colour isn't one I particularly have preferences in) but that is entirely separate from what is culturally conventionally attractive.

HappyFlappy · 14/02/2017 15:08

Course it's not racist.

If she'd said "blond men" or "tall men" or "rich men", no-one would have batted an eyelid - it's purely descriptive.

TBH, I think it is more racist to draw the inference that "black" is a pejorative term when applied to sexual preferences.

Cake - I like ginger, and beards, and short - not struck on curly hair, though.

I don't find oriental-looking men attractive, myself.

JJbum · 14/02/2017 15:09

Museumcurry

No I'm not, I'm trying to point out how this is racist and how this kind of crap attitude is part of a wider issue. I'm trying to point out how it can feel to be on the receiving end of any of it.

If it's just personal preference, it'd be fine to say it to some ones face ("sorry I don't find you attractive because you're black") If it's just personal preference then a young child could never end up with issues with self-image after overhearing conversations like the one the OP reported. Hmmm.

ThePants999 · 14/02/2017 15:09

I get so worked up about misuse of "racist".

Racism is where you infer something about someone because of their race, and discriminate against them based on that, even though it's garbage. If you think that because someone's skin is a certain colour that they're of inferior intelligence, or more likely to be a criminal/terrorist, or likely to have poor personal hygiene, or any other crap like that, you're a racist.

If you have personal aesthetic preferences regarding skin colour, and physical attraction is an important part of how you select sexual partners, then to date only people that are you preferred skin colour is NOT BLOODY RACIST.

SpartacusWoman · 14/02/2017 15:10

I think everyone should be able to say no to sex they don't want for any reason, and I don't think women (cos it's seems to mostly women) should be shamed into changing their mind.

The only way your friend could make the others not view her as racist is to backtrack and say she would have sex with someone she didn't want to. That makes me uncomfortable and reminds me very much of the insistence by many that lesbians who say no sex with a penis are bigots.

When choosing who you are going to have sex, you can reject for any reason you like, they shouldn't be hassled to justify why they are saying no, and then shouldn't be further shamed because the person asking why doesn't agree with their reason for saying no.

Ladydepp · 14/02/2017 15:10

Wasabi, you are a little bit weird Grin, but in a good way.

Most of my friends and I have certain tastes in men, but have often had a laugh about how our husbands/boyfriends don't actually fit our criteria very well.

I think the comment made in the OP was insensitive but not overtly racist.

And I don't think it's that weird to talk about the attractiveness of another parent, toddler group or not! It's more normally done in the pub, but toddler groups are pretty boring and it certainly livens things up Wink.

VestalVirgin · 14/02/2017 15:11

I find it very immature to a) bring up this topic in that kind of setting at all and b) to then further ask why she didn't find the guy attractive.

I mean, to a question like that, what can one say that is not at the very least rude?
As I have no hair, skin or eye colour preferences at all, I would have ended up saying something like "His nose is ugly" or "I don't like his personality", and that'd have been extremely unflattering.

I would never tell a woman that she is unfairly discriminating against a man by not wanting to have sex with him.

Besides, the poor guy would probably much rather not have his attractiveness discussed at all.

ThePants999 · 14/02/2017 15:12

Slightly off-topic: the BBC was attacked as "racist" recently for some rugby adverts they played in Wales that joked about how naff England was. The mind absolutely boggles. I may have to complain the next time a form asks me my race and doesn't distinguish between English and Welsh.

MuseumOfCurry · 14/02/2017 15:14

If it's just personal preference, it'd be fine to say it to some ones face ("sorry I don't find you attractive because you're black") If it's just personal preference then a young child could never end up with issues with self-image after overhearing conversations like the one the OP reported.

I have many personal preferences that I'd never dream of sharing anyone, much less a man who doesn't meet them. Where did you get the idea that they have to be palatable?

Just curious - do you think it's OK for black people not not find white people attractive?

ILoveCheeseMoreThanYou · 14/02/2017 15:14

She said "normally prefers" meaning she wasn't writing off an entire race.

birdybirdywoofwoof · 14/02/2017 15:14

"The woman who was interrogating the other woman about her reasons for not finding the father attractive sounds like a troublemaker in any case.

That's what I was trying to say. :)

Aeroflotgirl · 14/02/2017 15:14

No she's not necessarily racist, woukd yiu have said that, if she had said, I prefer black guys, not white. My Ugandan friend says she prefers white men. It's the same as not liking, blond, short, bald. Bet you woukd have not batted an eyelid if she said she prefers tall men!

watchoutformybutt · 14/02/2017 15:15

I'm brown and I don't fancy black/brown men. I don't hate them.. my dad is black. My preference in terms of attraction just seems to be "pale and interesting" rather than tall dark and handsome. We're allowed to have preferences without being called racist.

BornStroppy · 14/02/2017 15:16

Where the hell was this toddler group?

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