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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU in thinking this is not racist?

549 replies

KungFuPandaWorksOut16 · 14/02/2017 14:02

At a baby group, and one of the mothers starts commenting on a father who is there, mentioning how she wouldn't say no etc. Then asked what we think
One friend turned round and said no he isn't my cup of tea.
Original lady asked why
She responded she normally prefers white men, not black men.
Original lady tells her she should be disgusted in herself and having a view like that is highly racist. She then asked me do I agree if she was racist in what she said.

I told her I wouldn't view this as racist, just personal preference.
Is this actually racist? Or is original lady just being a bit over the top.

OP posts:
Katy07 · 15/02/2017 18:22

i think if there's a way to avoid saying something is due to someone's race, i think it's better to do that
I can see your point but, hypothetically, and just out of interest (and getting away from the point of this thread), would it be more acceptable to someone to say that you're not interested in them because they're a certain race or because they have, for example, a big nose? Personally I'd rather be lied to and told that someone didn't fancy me because of my race and not told the truth that they didn't like me because I had a big nose (I don't by the way - though apparently autistic people are physically different!!) - the former is less personal because you're being written off as part of a group and not as an individual.
But I digress.... I don't think it's racist to say that you 'normally prefer...' because it's not ruling anything out for the future.

BorrowedHeart · 15/02/2017 18:30

HRTFT, it's not racist, anyone who says it is, is overly pc and a twat that wants to look better than everyone else. I don't fancy Indians, guess I'm racist now.

EnormousTiger · 15/02/2017 18:50

I don't fancy men who are fat for example nor those who have beards and I prefer blonde or red headed men. I don't think I'm racist as we are just talking about what we find sexually attractive, not who we'd buy a paper from or be operated on by or have dinner with.

Bambambini · 15/02/2017 19:01

Is it really so awful if some people feel more attracted to possible sexual partners from their own race?

Sure i read somewhere that folk often have partners who look like them, where they are attracted to folk with similar features. I'd never be offended or think it odd if black or chinese folk felt more attracted to folk from their own race.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 15/02/2017 19:59

Is it really so awful if some people feel more attracted to possible sexual partners from their own race

No of course not ! It's the fact that she verbalized it - and then her mate started this distasteful thread about it ! That's the issue for me

Even children often group to friends of their own ethnicity -I see it all the time .

But if your child said 'I don't want to be friend with him he has a 'colour' face we would rightly tell them off

Ftlofg · 15/02/2017 20:12

But you cant compare being friends with someone to being sexually attracted/having sex with someone. Unless you are suggested that we would rightly tell someone off for not fancying/having sex with someone because of how that person looks.

GoesDownLikeACupOfColdSick · 15/02/2017 20:44

I don't think it's racist - I had this debate with my ex, who was half Indian but didn't fancy Indian or black girls, and he did convince me that it's not - but what I find odd is saying that you wouldn't fancy all black men. People don't all look the same, especially when it's as wide a category as "black" or "Asian" or "white", there's a huge variety!

Ftlofg · 15/02/2017 20:51

I guess thats why the woman qualified it with 'normally'. She doesnt normally fancy black men but as she hasnt met them all she cant rule out the whole race.

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 20:58

HerOtherHalf

"I find it hugely misogynistic anyone should question this of her.

Oh ffs get a grip of yourself. I've seen obtuse attempts to defend an illogical position but that is scraping the bottom of the barrel. The debate would be the same regardless of the genders involved and, unless your DNA is part slug, you damn well know that."

I am not sure if this is response to me, or not, as I am not sure who you are quoting, but if you are quoting me, I don't think it would be the same if we were talking about a man as to a woman. I've never seen or heard men given any kind of a hard time about not wanting to date or sleep with a certain woman. Plus the original question was not about dating, it was about sexual attraction.

And it is misogynistic to make women feel bad (calling them racist) for not wanting to be physically intimate with any man. And I don't need a grip, FFS, because no one in my life has every tried to talk me into fancying anyone, and I hope they never do. But if they did they would get the same reply as I have given here.

...and, unless your DNA is part slug... no idea what this has to do with it,

"... you damn well know that." You seem to be quite keen to tell me what I think. Are you a man by any chance?

You've lost me with the rest of your rant. So I shan't bother commenting on it. And if it was not directed at me, fine, because my views are still the same and that is that shaming women for not feeling sexually attracted to anyone is misogynistic!

ithakabythesea Your comments are a breathe of fresh air, thank you. They need repeating... "But is it rude not to fancy someone? I don;t think it is, and I think women suffer for being bought up to believe having a sexual preference is ill mannered. That they have to be grateful for male attention and never hint that they have sexual desires of their own."

And "It is a woman's right to find any man unattractive. That is not rudeness, that is owning your sexuality." Of course it is. And men so it all the time. And no one bats an eyelid.

NinjaLeprechaun "I'm sorry, I thought that my crossed-out comment about it either being irony or sarcasm would make it clear that the statement was both ironic and sarcastic on my part."

Oopse sorry, i did not read it that way! Apologies. I was thinking of a lovely elderly couple I know where she is Chinese and he is English! So many comments on here were getting my back up and I mis-read your comment. Apologies. Blush

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 21:07

Step lovely that you are so open about who you meet and date and ave a relationship with. Great for you. Like you I have dated men from a wide variety of ethnicicies, well at least 5.

However, not sure why you think that gives you the right to judge the woman in question.

sibys1 · 15/02/2017 21:11

BorrowedHeart

"I don't fancy Indians, guess I'm racist now."

Yes it certainly sounds like you are (or at least prejudiced, since Indian is a nationality and not a race).

Even setting aside arguments about culturally inherited bias for a moment (and I maintain the culture we're exposed to, including its institutional racism, does help shape our sexual preferences), you have just written off about 20% of the world's population of men based solely on their nationality.

If you said "I've never previously been attracted to an Indian man" or similar, that would be one thing, but your caterogic statement goes beyond that an prejudges all Indian men.

Maybe you can't help it, but that doesn't mean that it's not prejudice.

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 21:13

I'm with Katy I'd rather be told someone wasn't in to larger ladies than something very personal about me. Interesting one guy I was matched with via a dating side said he preferred larger ladies! Guess what, I wanted to give him a wide berth (well as wide as I could manage) because actually being defined as a larger lady who he liked for that reason felt odd to me!

Goesdown "...but what I find odd is saying that you wouldn't fancy all black men. People don't all look the same, especially when it's as wide a category as "black" or "Asian" or "white", there's a huge variety!"

I totally respect people's position to not be attracted to X,Y or Z. But I actually do feel that sometimes if people met more of X,Y or Z they may actually change their mind! I just feel it is not my job to do it for them.

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 21:14

sibys the point is BorrowedHeart doesn't need to fancy Indians, it is not her job to find all men from any group attractive.

sibys1 · 15/02/2017 21:27

Italiangreyhound - but she is writing off millions and millions of men she has never met, or otherwise encountered, based solely on their nationality. There's a difference between saying "I've never previously been attracted to an Indian man" and "I don't fancy Indian men" - only the latter of those statements is inherently prejudiced.

Or do you mean to say that no-one is in any way obliged to not be prejudiced towards other groups?

SuperBeagle · 15/02/2017 21:33

sibys What about when I say I don't fancy women? Or I don't fancy short men? Or I don't fancy fat men? Is that different?

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 21:37

Sibys unless she lives in India she is not realistically doing anything.

Plus she is not writing off anyone. I don't sleep with, and expect I may never sleep with, anyone except dh! Am I literally writing off BILLIONS of people! No, of course not.

Why is it a matter for anyone else who any of us are sexually attracted to? Clue - it is not.

"Or do you mean to say that no-one is in any way obliged to not be prejudiced towards other groups?"

Sexually attraction is biased. In favour of the those we are attracted to, against those we are not attracted to. But only in as much as that fact! Not who can go to uni, or work for the bank of England, or do a paper round.

Sexual attraction is not required to admit all, it is personal. To say anything else suggest you have the right to dictate who another finds sexually attractive or to shame that person for not finding any group attractive. Or maybe even for not agreeing with your view!

Do you honestly think all men equally potentially fancy all women from any group on this planet?have you heard men berated for this? And if so, how did that go?

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 21:39

Sorry - that should say... Have you heard men berated for not doing this? And if so, how did that go?

sibys1 · 15/02/2017 22:02

ItalianGreyhound - I've previously posted some links in this thread detailing the statisical breakdown of sexual preferences of both men and women, in respect of race. According to that data, as groups, men and women of all races have certain racial sexual preferences. None of the articles I've seen about sexual racism categorise it as a women-specific issue (in fact, if anything sexual racism is more prevalent issue amongst gay men, and it's a particular talking point in that community).

Whilst I've seen sexual racism on behalf of males be criticized in articles, I haven't witnessed it in person, but neither have I personally witnessed a woman being criticized for it. I don't think I've ever heard someone say "I don't fancy X race" in person, to be honest.

And I completely disagree re. writing off, I think there's an obvious difference between saying "I've never been attracted to an Indian man" and "I don't fancy Indian men" - the former leaves it entirely open that you could possibly, in the future, meet an Indian man that you're attracted to; the latter rejects that possibility.

If you were to say "I couldn't possibly ever be attracted to anyone other than my DH" then yes, you are writing off the possibility of being attracted to anyone else, but that is at least based on a very-absolute sort of monogamy, rather than a racial preference.

By the way, are you willing to accept that societal factors can shape your personal, sexual preferences, or do you rule that out?

TonaldDrump · 15/02/2017 22:12

The whole question was inappropriate and distasteful to begin with

DameDeDoubtance · 15/02/2017 22:52

Sexual preference is when it's ok to discriminate. Where has op gone>

PrinceHansOfTheTescoAisles · 15/02/2017 23:09

That poor dad! Did he know you were all sizing him up ?

Italiangreyhound · 15/02/2017 23:54

Sibys do you think because people say "I don't fancy Indian/Chinese/Black/Greek men"" instead of saying "I've never been attracted to an Indian/Chinese/Black/Greek man" that there is not still the entirely open possibility that they could possibly, in the future, meet such a man that they're attracted to?

Despite the fact that they have not specifically suggested it may happen. it may still happen.

I've been very attracted to men with dark skin, does that make me more virtuous or racist?

"By the way, are you willing to accept that societal factors can shape your personal, sexual preferences, or do you rule that out?"

Of course they can.

If you want to change societies racism, go ahead, I'd be delighted for that. I hate racism.

I'm just very surprised others are so invested in whether people may wish to mentally 'write off' people as sexual partners. It doesn't mean they won't ever have people from that particular group as someone they feel sexually attracted to. And if if they don't who do you feel is losing out here?

sibys1 · 16/02/2017 00:23

Italiangreyhound - if you accept that racism in our society probably does lead to people developing sexual racial biases, then surely you are accepting that a sexual preference for a certain race (or bias against another) can be a form of subconscious racism?

It might not be the individual's fault and they shouldn't be condemned for their subconscious preferences, but it is responsible for us to acknowledge that institutional racism can manifest in our individual preferences so we can try and understand and tackle the issue better.

almondpudding · 16/02/2017 00:34

Tackle what issue? Not enough women dropping their knickers for all and sundry?

It is hardly a pressing social problem.

MommaGee · 16/02/2017 00:34

Tbh I think the person questioning why your friend didn't fancy him was being quote goady
Would she have been happier of shed commented on his arse or nose or bo? Sounds like she wouldnt have got offended regardless.

,fwiw I dont think its racist. I'm not generally attracted to Indian guys but there uses to be an indian guy when I was single that I did find attractive and would have gone on a date with. Surely that's the implication of your friends reply.

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