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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Asking men to sign a consent form before sex - WIBU (slight TMI I suppose)

156 replies

MagentaHalfMoon · 13/02/2017 13:24

I have recently have some bad experiences with men during sex in terms of consent. One would keep on doing things I explicitly said I did not like (choking, biting etc), and another would hold me down and have sex with me without a condom, even if I begged him to put a condom on. This has completely thrown me off casual sex. But lately I have wanted to try again. Would I be unreasonable to have them sign a form saying something like:

"I agree to the following statements:

-(Various ways of saying No means No, such as "I don't like that means No", "I am not sure I want you do that means No")

-Penetrative sex will always be with a condom. No "teasing", pulling out or anything of the like.

-No choking or biting unless agreed upon

Signed: _"

WIBU?

OP posts:
lubeybooby · 13/02/2017 16:27

this thread is fucking unbelieveable for victim blaming bullshit

be ashamed of yourself MN!

'you should review how you meet men'

'don't have casual sex find someone who respects you'

'you can have your needs met without risking rape'

fuck off

fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off

A WOMAN IS ALLOWED TO HAVE CASUAL SEX ANYFUCKINGTIME SHE WANTS WITHOUT BEING RAPED.

OP doesn't have to modify her behaviour in any way and you all need to stop slutshaming and victim blaming her

absolutely vile bunch of 1950's attitudes.

more helpful would be pointing to rape support services and offering a non judgemental non blamey non pearl clutching friendly ear. ffs.

Dear OP

I am really sorry for how this thread has gone. You were raped in the past and I believe your fear and need to have the consent form is as a result of this trauma. Please speak to a rape counsellor rapecrisis.org.uk/ before you proceed with anything, and see if some healing from the past can help a bit first.

Flowers Brew

VestalVirgin · 13/02/2017 16:55

Same with sex, the other person who is also into casual sex will do things that will turn them on. They mostly don't care about you or your feelings as all they want is sexual gratification.

Uh ... no. No, I don't think so. I don't think it is normal to be a rapist asshole when you like casual sex. I do not think it is normal to not care about someone's feelings just because you don't know them.

@lubey:

OP doesn't have to modify her behaviour in any way and you all need to stop slutshaming and victim blaming her

Um, yeah, this is the vile 2017 attitude. I find it very dangerous to tell a woman to just continue doing something that she herself has noticed makes her vulnerable to rapists.

There is a difference between leading a normal life that may sometimes include walking home in dark alleys, and between trusting male strangers in situations where, due to the horrid legal system we have, they can get away with rape. Dark alleys don't rape women, men do.

OP has noticed that things do not work out well for her in the way she does them currently. That is why she came up with the consent form idea.
She has expressed an interest in modifying her behaviour. People are trying to help her find a way to modify her behaviour in ways that are actually helpful.

You would not recommend a person who has twice in a row found a glass shard in her fastfood to just continue eating fastfood because in a fair world, fastfood should be safe to eat, would you? You would at least recommend her to go to a different fastfood restaurant chain.
Especially in a world where it is allegedly illegal to sell unsafe food, but where it is almost never punished.

loobyloo1234 · 13/02/2017 17:00

Nice lubeybooby - how is anyone saying 'you can have your needs met without risking rape' slut shaming the OP in any way shape or form?

It is letting the OP know that this is not acceptable behaviour and so she can deal with what has happened as best she can - aswell as ensuring this doesn't happen again - rather than give out a form that will make absolutely no difference to rapists

user1486669405 · 13/02/2017 17:01

This thread reminds of the Yorkshire Ripper era when the solution advocating to keeping women safe was to put them on a curfew.

You guys are so backwards in your thinking, it's just depressing.

MorrisZapp · 13/02/2017 17:03

What should we be advocating on this thread to keep the op safe?

user1486669405 · 13/02/2017 17:04

....and all the people saying she needs to check her boundaries/she has self esteem issues, etc. Where is this fucking coming from? She just wants no strings sex, without having to to be raped!

MommaGee · 13/02/2017 17:05

lubey no one has said its her fault, no one has said she can't have casual sex. However she's tried via Tinder twice and has been assaulted and raped, which she hasn't recognised herself. She's been offered support and empathy, advised to report it etc.
She's been offered ideas on how to carry on having casual sex but also protect herself more. Not because she is asking for it or any such rubbish but because the reality is the world we live in.

Yes she could meet a guy, marry him and be raped. She could be somewhere supposedly safe I.e uni and be raped. But there are things we can do to protect ourselves more from raping arsehole arseholes and if that action cannot protect you or if you choose not to take it and are raped it still isn't your fault. There's nothing on this post that I've read that states differently.

If I go out tonight alone, get so drunk I pass out in a park there IS a greater risk to my personal safety than if I get a taxi home with my friend.
Knowing her sex buddy or under ng a reputable agency will similarly decrease her chances of being put at risk by the kin of people we unfortunately have to share our world with.

Motherofhowmany · 13/02/2017 17:07

Exactly user

No-one ever accuses men who enjoy casual sex as having esteem issues.

MommaGee · 13/02/2017 17:13

user I'd question the understanding of boundaries of anyone who cannot tell the difference between consensual but not really my thing and rape. The fact OP doesnt / didn't recognise at least thelatter experience as rape is scary and heartbreaking and suggests she doesn't understand her right to say no and have it abided by without a consent form

KathArtic · 13/02/2017 17:13

No-one ever accuses men who enjoy casual sex as having esteem issues.

If the OP was male I'm sure the same advice would be given

Motherofhowmany · 13/02/2017 17:20

momma how incredibly patronising. Not recognising what happened to you as being rape is very common in survivors. The sad truth of the matter is that admitting you experienced something like that is hard and many people find it difficult to process.

Op clearly understands the idea of consent otherwise she would never have created this thread.

GloriaGaynor · 13/02/2017 17:23

If I go out tonight alone, get so drunk I pass out in a park there IS a greater risk to my personal safety than if I get a taxi home with my friend.

I don't agree with that at all. I've not noticed drunk women in parks being raped more than any other women. As we all know stranger rapes are a small % of total rapes.

I think this is a difficult case. Women should be able to go on Tinder and hook with who they like and come to no harm. But as the OP as discovered there are some fucking awful men on there.

Fact is that she could be raped by a friend. However, after two bad experiences on tinder, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest she sticks with f buddies that she knows better.

Tbh I've heard gay men report similar bad experiences from hookup sites.

GloriaGaynor · 13/02/2017 17:25

No-one ever accuses men who enjoy casual sex as having esteem issues

That's not true at all. And some men are quite open about liking casual sex for validation as much as the sex itself.

VestalVirgin · 13/02/2017 17:27

No-one ever accuses men who enjoy casual sex as having esteem issues.

Rest assured, if the men who raped the OP asked for advice here, I would accuse them of far worse things than having esteem issues ...

And yeah, if a gay man reported having been raped twice by strangers he wanted to have casual sex with, I would also tell him to change his approach.

Admittedly, if a man told me he had been held down by women and forced to have sex without condom twice in a relatively short timespan, the I would call bullshit.

user1486669405 · 13/02/2017 17:28

Momma gee

The boundary and self esteem issue allegations are coming over as more to do with her wanting casual sex rather than a deeper relationship. Probably because people generally think female promiscuity is more to do with mental health issues than raw sexual need.

Many women who have been raped don't like to name it as rape, not because of low self esteem or boundary issues but as an emotional self defense. The rape might lead onto esteem issues but they won't have caused it. The rapist caused the rape.

There are practical things she can do that can help her protect herself, that doesn't mean she has to avoid casual sex, some of them can be found here www.google.co.uk/amp/s/blog.lass.org.uk/2014/11/17/casual-sex-encounters-read-this-stay-safe/amp/?client=safari

At the end of the day some men rape, whether in long or short term relationships. I have seen many posts by married women on here on the subject. In 100% of those cases the female did not bring it on herself, whatever her actions were.

MattBerrysHair · 13/02/2017 17:30

Op, when I was single I joined Fabswingers for casual sex. There are 'ratings' for people in the form of verifications from their previous meets. Always chat online with a potential meet, then have a phone conversation, and finally a 'social' before even thinking about having sex with them. I tended to only meet people who contributed to the forums as it was a good way to gauge their general attitude towards other's before making contact.

During a hypomanic episode I put myself into some situations that had the potential to be incredibly dangerous. Not one person I met from that site ever took advantage of my vulnerability. I've even made some good friends in there which I never looked for or expected.

user1486669405 · 13/02/2017 17:30

Do people think that women who live in cultures that require complete coverage and little integration with males get raped any less than over here?

Denna81 · 13/02/2017 17:36

Myth: Women are most likely to be raped outside, after dark and by a stranger, so women shouldn't go out alone at night.

Fact: Only around 10% of rapes are committed by 'strangers'. Around 90% of rapes are committed by known men, and often by someone who the survivor has previously trusted or even loved. People are raped in their homes, their workplaces and other settings where they have previously felt safe. Rapists can be friends, colleagues, clients, neighbours, family members, partners or exes. Risk of rape shouldn't be used as an excuse to control women's movements and restrict their rights and freedom.

rapecrisis.org.uk/mythsvsrealities.php

derxa · 13/02/2017 17:41

You guys are so backwards in your thinking, it's just depressing. I'm sure I am very backwards. The OP has been assaulted and raped by men she met online. Should she carry on doing the same thing just because it was wrong that it happened and men shouldn't do this? Is she some sort of social experiment for MN?
People mainly post on here to be helpful. Quite frankly I just want to give her a hug and listen to her and then support her. But then I'm old enough to be her mum.

SmileEachDay · 13/02/2017 17:42

Unfortunately denna the "don't get drunk and get sexy with strangers" myth is so pervasive.

It perpetuates the idea that women are responsible. Every time a disclosure of rape is met with "have you thought about doing X/Y/Z differently" it chips away at the truth that rapists hold all the responsibility.

JAPAB · 13/02/2017 17:45

user1486669405 I would imagine that that there are types of rape they are less likely to fall victim to.

Denna81 even if only 0.5% pf rapes were to occur down dark alleys at night, surely that would have no bearing on whether it is good or bad advice to not walk down dark alleys late at night?

SmileEachDay · 13/02/2017 17:45

derxa it's not about social experiments. I would also hug her and listen.

I'd explore with her some of the issues she might feel she has, if any.

I wouldn't suggest she should have behaved differently in order to prevent rape. Give me 10 mins in a room with one of the men and I'd have several suggestions.

Original poster
MagentaHalfMoon · 13/02/2017 17:46

MommaGee I understand my right to say no. It didn't particularly work. And people don't always know if they have been raped. Just like people don't always know that they are in an abuse relationship.

OP posts:
MommaGee · 13/02/2017 17:47

It wasn't meant patronisingly and magenta on sorry of of read that way. My point was perhaps people are questioning her boundaries if she's not recognising these things for what they are and perhaps has been in previous situations where people have assaulted her and she's not felt able or entitled to take action.

WhiskyIrnBru · 13/02/2017 17:50

This thread Hmm

Lubey everything you said.

OP, you are entitled to have the sex life you wish without being coerced, violated and abused. Unbelievable some of the replies on here. This is an good example of one of the many reasons rapes and sexual assault aren't reported.

pearl clutching.