Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to ask you to support this event?

342 replies

Niamer · 11/02/2017 23:26

www.uniteforeurope.org

  • we are about to spend £120 billion extricating ourselves from the EU. That money is desperately needed in health and social care sectors.
  • many Leave campaign promises, voted for in good faith are untrue
  • millions of people directly affected by Brexit were not allowed a vote.
-the referendum was advisory. To have been binding, a supermajority would have been needed to make such a huge constitutional change.
  • Brexit is likely to result in the permanent break-up of the UK.
  • we are turning our back on our friends and allies of 40 years
  • EU citizens in the UK are uncertain of their rights and in many cases feel unwelcome.

I don't like particularly enjoy going to London, I hate crowds, but I HAVE to be at this march. Please consider attending and sharing this event. We are all victims of a fraudulent campaign and are facing a Tory hard destructive unopposed Brexit. I will NOT let this happen to my children without a fight.

OP posts:
PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/02/2017 08:07

So how many that are marching campaigned during the build up to the referendum then?

I repeat my question.

justlikekatycarr · 15/02/2017 08:07

None of us have a clue how history will record these events. We simply cannot know. Besides which, given that historians tend to be white, upper middle class and male, their recording of events is far from unbiased and diplomatic.

Time and time again the point on these threads is made - 48%, we cannot ignore the 48%. I agree, although I voted Leave. Another recurring theme is that the 52% "didn't know what they were doing" and further, that those who DID know, are "lacking education, xenophobic, racist."

If we take the gloss off, let's simply present that as some see it. They see it as Good vs Bad; as 48% liberal, open minded, non racist, non xenophobic, educated individuals, vs 52% xenophobic, possibly racist, lacking education, disillusioned, closed minded. That's about the gist of it.

To put it into human terms, it's your anxiously smiling middle class mummy concerned Jemima and Jonty can't go and study in Berlin as planned, it's your tutting teachers that someone dislikes the delightful Polish children in your class, it's your buisinessman who lives in the leafy suburbs (plenty of space!) and he's tried to get the lazy British people to work for him but they won't, who read books about different cultures to their children and encourage discussions in the family Saab ('but mummy, WHY don't we want to be friends with French people?' Jemima asks sadly.)

They are tempered against the white working classes: they have tattoos, skinheads, bad teeth, strong local accents, say 'I'm not racist but' (tinkly laugh), they live cheek by jowl in flats or terraced streets, they work locally or are unemployed, they left school at 16, they go to the pub, they probably ARE xenophobic, certainly sexist, they don't see the good things the EU has done because they read the Sun or the Mirror. They are idiots. And shock horror, they have decided where our country is going.

Their vote counts too. But even if we assume it doesn't - even if we assume for arguments sake that they are racist and stupid and remain are good and noble, let me put it to you another way. If the government turn around and say 'you know what, Remain, you're right. Let's ignore these stupid racist views and stay European. European all the way!' Would that 52% quietly take that?

I think we'd have a UKIP government in like a flash. Major disillusion with the main political parties and serious, serious social problems.

You see, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that in that 52%, you have the percentage of people LEAST likely to vote, LEAST likely to engage in politics, LEAST likely to try and change their environment. Why - because what's the point? Now for the first time for some of them, they saw the point and I really do regret it they didn't give the opinion some of you wanted - but they did.

How will it look now if we turn round and say 'ok, tough shit, we are staying.'

On another note, I suspect Frexit will be next following April 's elections. Le Pen is currently third in the polls but polls are notoriously unreliable of late.

Mum2astar · 15/02/2017 08:16

" show some real committment and leave this country and move to the sainted Europe if you think it is soooo good?"

We could, but there's every chance we'll be deported back to the UK once brexit goes through as we'll loose our right to live in the EU!!

So you don't accept a democratic vote and you want a second referendum?!?!

What's you name, Nicola Sturgeon?

No, I do not when the public was lied too, and not fully informed to make the decision. I say decision but it was actually only an opinion poll... Which we all know... Yes David Cameron said it would be implemented but Boris Johnson said we'd be £350million a week better off... You can't hold one lie to account and not the other!
There's plenty of examples of referendums being re run because the information given was found to be unclear or incorrect. True democracy only exists with total clarity

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/02/2017 08:20

So as you say you don't feel it was democratic, I assume you would also be marching if remain had won, or would that be ok because that is what you wanted. Mum2astar

RebootYourEngine · 15/02/2017 08:28

How many people actually believed the stuff about the 350million savings or the money going to the NHS? I didnt and neither did anyone that i spoke to.

People, parties, campaigners will say things in elections/referendums to get people to vote for them. I am sure the Remainers told a few lies as well. Most people look beyond that and look at the whole picture.

Amymay1984 · 15/02/2017 08:35

I'll be honest and admit that at this point I believe we can't go back on the vote, as much as it pains me to accept. What I want at this stage is to be heard by our government. There seems to be absolutely no regard for 48% of those who voted. The fact she tried to push this through without going through Parliament, the fact she only released the white papers the day after the vote, the fact she's pulling us out of the single market. If I attend this march it'll be to be present and show TM that I do not support her.

GraceGrape · 15/02/2017 08:44

Piglet, to answer your question, I contacted the Stronger In campaign 3 times to volunteer. Nobody ever got back to me.My 72 year old Dad did campaign, but he also had to contact them repeatedly. Possibly one of the reasons Remain lost is that the official campaign was too disorganised to co-ordinate volunteers who were willing to take action.

themueslicamel · 15/02/2017 08:45

Yes we were lied too, underhand tactics around, £8,000,000 on remain leaflets just before the campaign formally started, non political figures like Mark Carney making remain statements, daily and increasingly bizarre "project fear" doom-mongering, and on the leave side we had the bizarre £350,000,000 a week to the NHS.

Yes we were lied too, we all lived through it.

I think history will view the remain campaign as shooting itself in the foot, as it caused the politically disenfranchised to feel further isolated by the political elite in London and Brussels.

Personally as someone who spent a lot of time researching the facts before casting a leave vote, I would have accepted the decision either way, just like I have when voting hasn't gone my way before, (although I appreciate this is longer lasting).

Yes leaving is a gamble, but I am enormously excited by it.

I am not rude enough to insult those who voted against me, perhaps we could all extend that courtesy.

OP, YANBU to march, however I would march against you.

CallingGloria · 15/02/2017 08:49

I'd love to know where abouts in England the majority of you Remainers live. I doubt it's in the north were there is little evidence of 40 years in the EU (the obvious evidence being the decline of our main 'industry').

Secondly, I assume most are likely to live in the South were it is easy to get to London in order to march. Where I live it would take 4 hours by train and cost over £100 (for 1 person).

I really don't think Europe is a beautiful as some think. Yes- there are places like London that are rich and cosmopolitan but (like the UK) there are vast areas that are in decline and poverty. Similar to the USA and look whats happening there.

birdsdestiny · 15/02/2017 09:02

I live in the North. Enormous amount of EU funded projects here. Especially for young people. The decline in the North has bugger all to do with the EU.

GraceGrape · 15/02/2017 09:06

I live in the East - Brexit heartlands! Big leave vote although where I live is relatively wealthy, lots of people commute to work in the city and there is virtually no immigration (or if there is, it tends to be well-off Germans or French that people don't seem to have such an issue with).

Niamer · 15/02/2017 09:12

piglet no, sadly I didn't at all. I was pretty occupied with other challenges in the run up and not taking much notice tbh. It never once occurred to me to vote Leave and I wrongly assumed that most people in UK would feel the same.

OP posts:
Itisnoteasybeingdifferent · 15/02/2017 09:16

People are talking about lies.

Yes we were lied to... by Edward Heath and John Major and Tony Blair. they lied to us when they said it is a common market.The whole european project is to create a federal state. It has always been about creating the United States of Europe.

winkywinkola · 15/02/2017 09:21

CallingGloria, and how much of that decline is due to membership of the EU?

winkywinkola · 15/02/2017 09:23

And I can't believe we have reached an era where it is acceptable that campaigners lie to us and that's okay.

Niamer · 15/02/2017 09:26

Callinggloria there are remain groups springing up countrywide now. I live in a leave dominated area. Many areas are providing coaches to London. Plus there are regional marches on different days. There are many ways for people to support the cause other than just the London march.

OP posts:
Itisnoteasybeingdifferent · 15/02/2017 09:32

Joining a rent a crowd protest is easy. Go along and be part of a flock of like minded people shouting slogans. Write comments on social media saying how you are offended.

Actually doing something like walking for hours every day delivering leaflets. Giving up all your spare time to campaign takes a lot of committlent and effort. Perhaps the leave vote took the day because leave supporters put in the effort?

birdybirdywoofwoof · 15/02/2017 09:43

*To put it into human terms, it's your anxiously smiling middle class mummy concerned Jemima and Jonty can't go and study in Berlin as planned, it's your tutting teachers that someone dislikes the delightful Polish children in your class, it's your buisinessman who lives in the leafy suburbs (plenty of space!) and he's tried to get the lazy British people to work for him but they won't, who read books about different cultures to their children and encourage discussions in the family Saab ('but mummy, WHY don't we want to be friends with French people?' Jemima asks sadly.)

They are tempered against the white working classes: they have tattoos, skinheads, bad teeth, strong local accents, say 'I'm not racist but' (tinkly laugh), they live cheek by jowl in flats or terraced streets, they work locally or are unemployed, they left school at 16, they go to the pub, they probably ARE xenophobic, certainly sexist, they don't see the good things the EU has done because they read the Sun or the Mirror. They are idiots. And shock horror, they have decided where our country is going.*

I surprised this staggeringly stereotypical nonsense is still being peddled 6 months after the referendum. You MUST know this nonsense isn't true - unless you think the majority of people in Liverpool, Manchester, London, Scotland are middle class mummys, and the majority of people on the Estuary and in Surrey are tattooed skinheads.

Age and education was the biggest vote predictor: not this bizarre representation of remainers as snobby women, and leavers as thuggish men.

Itisnoteasybeingdifferent · 15/02/2017 10:00

Before you go along to the march .. watch this..

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08dx4lz/this-world-after-brexit-the-battle-for-europe

I used to support the European ideal, then I spent some time in Spain and saw how it works in places other than London, Germany and northern France.

NarkyMcDinkyChops · 15/02/2017 10:09

Perhaps the leave vote took the day because leave supporters put in the effort?

Nope.

GraceGrape · 15/02/2017 10:14

There was an interesting post on another from a MNer in Italy regarding that BBC programme. She said she didn't recognise any of the ideas it presented about Italians and their views of the EU. It talked about the referendum in Italy as being about the EU, whereas Italians viewed it as a domestic governance issue.

From what I've heard from people living in Europe, the failing EU rhetoric that keeps cropping up in the UK media is not an issue in European countries. For example, a poster upthread said she thought Marine Le Pen would win the French election and precipitate a "Frexit". Actually, she has backtracked on this pledge as there is no appetite for this in France probably since they saw the dog's dinner that is Brexit. She wants withdrawal from the Eurozone but not the EU. This doesn't get much publicity in the UK media though, because it doesn't fit the anti-EU agenda that most of them follow.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/02/2017 10:15

So NarkyMcDinkyChops Did you campaign then?

As pp has said it was difficult to get info out of the stronger in campaign to campaign. In some areas it was also difficult to get people to campaign.

There are people around here that are marching and complaining about the result yet were asked to campaign and said no as there was no way leave would win.

They did.

NarkyMcDinkyChops · 15/02/2017 10:15

I'd love to know where abouts in England the majority of you Remainers live. I doubt it's in the north were there is little evidence of 40 years in the EU (the obvious evidence being the decline of our main 'industry')

The NE got £195.4 million in European Social Fund grants and £296.8 million in European Regional Development Fund grants in just FIVE years between 2008-13! Thats the most money given to any region in the UK.

Throughout the whole of England regions have received a total of £2.2 billion in ESF funding and £2.2 billion in ERDF funding - a total of £4.4 billion between 2008 and 2013.

Seriously, how much more do you want? The decline in mining etc was nothing at all to do with the EU, blame Thatcher for that one Hmm

winkywinkola · 15/02/2017 10:15

The Leave vote took the day because of the massive media bias and total fictions peddled by the likes of Johnson, Farage, the Daily Mail, the Express etc.

CallingGloria · 15/02/2017 10:56

Narky its not mining. But our industry was restricted in favour of southern Europe.

Comments above like I find it astounding how few people seem to understand...the role of MPs demonstrates how condescending and offensive some people are. By calling people stupid because they voted differently makes you look ignorant.

The average person doesn't have an in depth knowledge of how the EU, Parliament, voting etc works, and the Referendum wasn't presented as advisory. People voted on issues that affected them, their families and communities, not how to best preserve the comfort, convenience and lifestyles of the rich/Southerners/MPs.