To be shm after children are at school

[Notthinkingclearly]

I have 2 dc who are 6 and 9. Since my first child was born i have been a stay at home mum. My DH works away alot abroad so I am often on my own. My Dc's have not been the most robust and have both had quite a few weeks off school with legitimate reasons over the last few years with hospital appointments. I have felt that if I had been at work I would have been a rubbish employee. I seem to be really busy all the time but feel I am constantly justifying to everyone why I don't have a job. I look after a relations 2 year old one day a week, help in school one day a week and I am a member of the schools PTA. I don't go out apart from supermarket or a walk during the week and only ever sit down to eat my lunch during the day. Am I as spoilt and lazy as I am made to feel?

Exactly. I have a friend who did leave her children at nursery when she could've collected though- both working, he is supposed to do pick
Ups but constantly asked her to at the last minute, so she was doing more than her fair share.

One day she told him no and left the children there. He had to leave his oh so important meeting, pay the fine and deal with the upset children, and didn't do it again.

All relationships are transactions. The commitment part is about making it a long term transaction i.e. waiting out the crises and having major goals.

You can choose to view relationships as transactions, obviously. Personally, that isn't the perspective that I would choose to take.

Trainspotting I think it depends on whether its would be reasonable for her to do it I.e not at work at that time, not a major issue ie 3 buses each way. If she left the kids there to teach him a lesson I dont think that's a healthy way to deal with the relationship issues personally and not fair on the kids

It's difficult to imagine a healthy way when your partner thinks his time is more important than yours surely? When you both work FT parenting has to be 50:50. Whether or not it's convenient for her why should she do more than 50%?

That's what you see all the time, women who leave work early, take time off because their children are sick, do all the parents evenings etc, pissing off her employers whilst the husband is unaffected. It's not fair.

I think it's a good way of teaching him that the buck stops with him too. And forcing him to organise his schedule more carefully.

If women keep picking up the pieces after men, they'll never change their workplace behaviour.

Trainspotting. She proved a point to her husband but both of them caused stress and upset to the children and inconvenience to the staff who probably don't get paid for having to stay late just because of the clash of egos.

Both my best friend from school and my sil have high powered jobs that require them to travel for work so between them and they're hubamds, they decided the husband's career would to take a step back. Not everyone can perfect jobs with flexibility sadly.

Both myself and my dh worked from after I finished mat leave but my work wpuldnt allow any flexibility and my boss hated a working parents and I ended up taking them to court for constructive dismissal which I won. At the same time my daughter was unhappy at nursery ( two of the staff were sacked for inappropriate behaviour towards the children).

As a result. We decided that dhs would career would come first as he earns more in his chosen industry, loves his job and I've worked 30 odd years (I'm older than him) and have list a bit of my umph). I didn't want to give up work so now work 3 days a week in a local job so I'm only out the house for 8 hours.we have a fantastic childminder. My husband stays at home if my child is sick and it's my work day. He does all the shopping and cooking. I do the cleaning and ironing because that's the way we want to split it. I don't feel like I've made a huge sacrifice. Feel like I've got it made. Love the fact that I do the school rumds a couple of days a week buy don't want to do it everyday.

The point I'm making is we all just do what we gotta do. There is no right or wrong way.

I also think there is a biological element at play. I don't know huge amounts about it but there is a hormonal element to parenting. This is stimulated by giving birth in females. When we talk about this being a societal issue we seem to ignore the biological elements. I certainly had a very strong desire to stay at home and look after my dc.
I am not saying this is better or worse but it makes the argument more complex when it comes to SAHM and the gender stereotype.

Very true. The maternal instinct was once revered but now its something to be ashamed of. There's no profit in it I guess

*that's it Lilly, its teaching Dh a lesson at the expense of the kids. If they both work and alternate leaving early and he constantly can't do his turn then they need tp look at childcare. If they can't afford childcare and he won't do his share they have bigger issues. If she could have picked them up but didn't I think that's unfair on the kids and school.
I would however not have time to do something that affects him like his washing, ironing, cooking etc. And then they need to talk, like adults.
If he still won't dp his share then they have bigger issues.

Im a SAHM. I expect DH to do his share of caring for our son. I expect him to cllm a meal if necessary, to bring down his washing and put loads on and into the dryer. I do more housework cos I'm here more but our marriage is equal irrespective of who earns what

By denying the inherent transactional nature of relationships you deny yourself the opportunity to analyse your relationship and negotiate lasting imorovements.

Maybe, Bobo, but we've managed quite happily for the past 22 years without considering our relationship in these terms, so I'm in no rush to change the way I look at it now.

I'm aware of the theory, I just choose to look at my relationship through that particular lens. Each to their own.

To those asking what working parents would do if they won the lottery.... I am fortunate enough that DH earns a lot. It's like we have won the lottery. It brings about its own challenges. Raising DC to be 'normal' is something we are conscious about. It's part of the reason I work too. It helps keep me feel grounded and in reality.

Also DH is very senior and has the high income that goes with it. When he starts to not pull his weight I tell him that if he can poop on the toilet like everyone else he can also clean it. I don't give a damn what he or I 'are' at work. When we walk through our front door we are mummy and daddy and are equally responsible for ensuring our DC are nurtured. That includes doing the housework or organizing someone to do it for us.

I don't think everyone would chose to be a SAHM if they could. I don't, and I know many women who don't. I think people would be surprised at the number of women who could stay at home if they wanted to.

However as a working mother you face a lot of criticism for your choices and a flat " I have to work for the money"'is an easy way to shut people up.

I agree, Trainspotting. A lot of people still feel that it's somehow unnatural for mothers to want to work outside the home. It's socially acceptable however, if they need the money.

Someone made a comment above about biological differences meaning that women are more likely to want to stay at home with their children. Someone else used the phrase "maternal instinct". All of these ideas play into the idea that it's right and proper for women to stay at home and somewhat unnatural for them to want to work if they don't have to.

I've no doubt that many women do want to stay at home with their kids and that's fine, but I'm less than convinced that this is biological in origin.

Yes, most women have an instinct to nurture their kids, and I was no exception to that. It's why I breastfed dd for nearly three years and co-slept with her among other things. That didn't mean that I was willing to give up all that I had worked for, or that I felt I was the only person who could care for her effectively.

Similarly, DH had a strong instinct to nurture and care for our dd as well. Yes, it was probably easier for me to bond with her initially, not least because I was feeding her myself. However, by being as involved and hands-on as he was from the outset, I think dh soon developed a really strong bond too.

There's a lot of criticism for sahms as well though Laziness is often a word used. I work and unless I win the lottery in which case I'd buy a horse, get a degree and all the other stuff I dream of if money was no object

Yes, I agree that SAHMs are often criticised too.

Basically, it seems that women are in the wrong no matter what they choose to do. It's rather sad that we, as women, so often continue to perpetuate this.

Agreed- a woman's place is in the wrong.

"There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women"

• Madeleine allbright

Someone made a comment above about biological differences meaning that women are more likely to want to stay at home with their children. Someone else used the phrase "maternal instinct". All of these ideas play into the idea that it's right and proper for women to stay at home and somewhat unnatural for them to want to work if they don't have to.

You refer to this as ideas because it suits your agenda. From the literature I have read there is a biological basis to parenting, this is also true for males but via a different mechanism and over a different timescale. Biology and environment interact with one another. No one is suggesting that anything is unnatural but there have been a number of comments on this thread as to why it is generally the woman that stays at home. Biology may just be part of that argument.

That Madeleine Allbright quote made me smile!

One of the things I like best about being a "boss" is that I can help both the men and women in my team achieve a better work-life balance. I can create a culture where long hours aren't expected and where presenteeism isn't valued; where flexibility is the norm; where it is acknowledged that people have lives and commitments outside of work, whether they have children or not; where people can take time off for family or personal emergencies without the added stress of worrying about what work will think. In my experience, most staff appreciate having an employer that values their life outside of work, and they give back just as much to the organisation in terms of their commitment and their own flexibility when we happen to need it.

You refer to this as ideas because it suits your agenda.

I don't have an agenda. I only have my own experience. I felt an overwhelmingly strong instinct to love and nurture my dd, but this did not mean that I wanted to stay at home instead of going back to work.

Sahm's have been heavily criticized on this thread! Pushed into one homogeneous group and described as lazy and boring with DHs who are emotionally distant from their children. That couldn't be further from my personal reality.

The thing is most people don't live in some weird stereotype. DH and I don't waste any time worrying about whether our lives are fair and equal. It doesn't even enter my head. I don't feel as if I've sacrificed anything by not having a glittering career. You get one life and DH and I are working together to make sure we have the best one possible for us and our children. Just like everyone else I know, regardless of whether they work or not.

No one said it did biscuit just that it might go towards explaining why some women choose not to.

I was refering to the use of word "ideas" as I felt that it was very dismissive in the context it was used.

I suppose it's different if you had a glittering career though Neville?

I have 2 friends I always think of in these situations. 1 worked in a clothes boutique. She stayed there a bit when she had her first (part time) and gave it up when she had her second and she gave it up. Of course she did, it was probably just over min wage and she had no hope of covering childcare and although she enjoyed it it was hardly worth the bother.

Another friend is a nurse. She works ft (over 3 days). It's absolutely a vocation and she doesn't seem to have considered leaving- nursing being the only thing she's ever wanted to do. She's got a great career and is extremely well regarded

I can easily see why both chose the paths they did

Thing is - in the past women would be having children from a young age and would often spend a fair part of their life being pregnant and looking after young children. It's only fairly recently that that has changed.