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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

917 replies

Karen85 · 03/02/2017 13:24

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

OP posts:
trixymalixy · 15/02/2017 16:05

Oh fgs.

  1. The block grant has increased in real terms.
  1. That unemployment figure is a classic example of SNP spin ignoring the fact that unemployment is up overall.
Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 16:11

SNP are doing consultations and have surgeries etc so are inviting discussion.

They have worked constructively with Greens on the recent budget as mentioned up thread. They did the 'listening exercise' actively asking people who don't agree with their views to tell them how they should improve. I haven't seen any other party do that.

I certainly don't mind anyone pointing out where SNP are slipping. I just can't see any other party doing better in our current circumstances.

Not shutting down discussion at all.

Wellthatsit · 15/02/2017 16:22

I thought the greens said they weren't prepared to block the budget I. e. they were prepared to work with the SNP, not the other way around.
Anyway, we will wait and see if the listening exercise makes any difference. Doing it is not what's important. Acting on it is.
But it is true that they don't allow dissent among their ranks - I have heard this from the horses mouth, albeit anecdotally. But I am minded to believe it in that it is lots of different anecdotes from lots of different different people in the thick of it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/02/2017 16:28

The block grant has increased in real terms

For the first few years of devolution, Scotland’s resource budget had been growing in each and every year. But since 2009-10 it has been falling and the Scottish Government now has a budget that is around 5% lower in real terms than they had at the start of the last parliament in 2011

fraserofallander.org/2016/09/13/scotlands-budget-2016-in-6-charts/

That unemployment figure is a classic example of SNP spin ignoring the fact that unemployment is up overall.

www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Labour-Market/LMTrends

trixymalixy · 15/02/2017 16:29

All MPs have surgeries.

The budget was a disgrace.

The listening exercise was a total waste of time as yes voters and no voters were filling it in multiple times.

cheeseandcrackers77 · 15/02/2017 16:32

When will we see the results of the listening exercise? It ended on the 30th November and we are now in the middle of February. I doubt we will hear anything if, as I suspect, they didn't like what they heard.

I am in no way saying the other parties are doing better but what I and many folk are trying to point out is that the SNP don't allow party members or MP to criticise them or a policy in public. Look at Westminster Ken Clark stood up in parliament and went against his party over Brexit an SNP MP can NEVER do that as it's against party policy how can anyone justify that!!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/02/2017 16:34

When will we see the results of the listening exercise? It ended on the 30th November and we are now in the middle of February

I doubt we will - it was always going to be far to hard to verify the authenticity of responses, the whole thing was a poorly thought out waste of time and money.

an SNP MP can NEVER do that as it's against party policy how can anyone justify that!!

On the other hand look at Labour - hardly a shining example of what happens if you give MPs a free rein...

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 15/02/2017 16:41

I filled out the 'listening exercise'. It was primarily designed to figure out how to convince 'NO' voters to vote Yes next time (or 'Leave' as it will probably be if indyref2 happens). I wouldn't say it was designed to ask how the SNP should improve.

I don't know when/if it will ever be published (I also suspect they didn't like what they heard), but it wasn't very well conducted - it relied on a self selected group of people filling it in and so was completely unrepresentative. I was reluctant to at first because it meant giving my personal details to the SNP and the last thing I wanted was a member coming to my house to 'discuss' the issue with me. I had more than enough discussion the first time round.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 15/02/2017 16:45

On the other hand look at Labour - hardly a shining example of what happens if you give MPs a free rein...

A complete shambles, I agree. But that's primarily down to (ridiculously) poor leadership. The SNP goes too far the other way imo. I want an MP who is actually able to speak for their constituents, or according to their conscience, and isn't completely constrained by the narrow agenda of their party.

cheeseandcrackers77 · 15/02/2017 16:46

Well yes labour is in a mess but that's not down to a few MP seconds speaking out.
Of those that support the SNP how do you intend to win folk over when many like me have no trust in the party. I would like to think my MP or MSP (both SNP) could speak out willingly if a policy their party brought in was bad for their constituency?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/02/2017 16:52

Of those that support the SNP how do you intend to win folk over when many like me have no trust in the party

We don't Wink I think it is fairly evident that no-one on this thread is going to change their mind Grin

Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 16:56

You guys can run down the SNP for their policies, for their united front or anything you like. I am still not aware of any other party anywhere close to working well for Scotland.

Once Scotland is independent the SNP and other parties in Scotland will need to change. Lots will change. But Scotland will be self governing.

The Tories are not working in Scotland's interests and IMO Labour had their chance and failed. Greens and Lib Dems aren't near voter numbers to govern at the moment.

SNP Have respected the 2014 vote and have tried to mitigate Tory austerity for Scotland, opposing and voting in Westminster in Scotland's interests as far as I can see (unlike Labour). Now Brexit will damage Scotland's interests.

Having tried to make the best of things there's nothing else for it.

prettybird · 15/02/2017 16:57

I'd be happy with Full Fiscal Autonomy (indeed it was one of options put forward to the Smith Conmission but not accepted): ie full control of all the financial levers (income tax is just one small element), all revenues raised in Scotland staying in Scotland - not just income tax, but excise duty, corporate taxation, all VAT etc, ie not relying on pocket money a block grant from Westminster and then paying an agreed proportion for "defence of the realm" which whether we like it or not includes Trident and international relations (which unfortunately would include the Brexit costs negotiations). In other words, a true federal structure.

I'd prefer full independence but I'd settle for FFA. At least it would settle once and for all whether unlike any other country of a similar size, we could "survive" (or even flourish) on our own.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/02/2017 17:01

SNP Have respected the 2014 vote

Right....

Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 17:04

Me too Prettybird.

Wellthatsit · 15/02/2017 17:26

"SNP Have respected the 2014 vote"

Despite all the endless talk of independence Confused

Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 17:35

Yes Wellthatsit. They have absolutely respected the result and done all they should have to govern for the whole of Scotland. Their manifesto of course has indyref2 on in the event of material change in circumstances eg Brexit and they were voted into Holyrood again even so. They are looking at indyref2 after offering options which were ignored by TM.

There hasn't been UDI or anything like civil unrest or anything. Just the normal democratic discussion and processes.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/02/2017 17:40

calyx I don't think that what Wellthatsit meant. They mean that after the independence vote the SNP should have conceded defeat and disbanded the party, as of course every party in a democracy does when losing a significant vote.

Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 17:41

Aaah yes of course silly me Grin

Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 17:42

Losing by that enormous margin as well.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 15/02/2017 18:07

Conceding defeat would have done, what with them promising it was a once in a generation thing and everything. No need to disband Smile

Wellthatsit · 15/02/2017 18:15

Don't worry, I can take a bit of teasing. But you do know what I mean even if you have an answer to it. Yes, fair dos, indyref2 was on the manifesto, and SNP did get reelected (although not as a majority) but even that wasn't respecting the 2014 vote. The fact they got elected on tat manifesto has as much to do with the mess and/or weaknesses of the other parties than support for independence. There is still healthy support for independence, but likewise a healthy antagonism towards it. And the SNP was elected to do a lot more than just that one small item on its manifesto. Many think they are doing a poor job because they are distracted by indyref2. I suspect TM will suffer similar criticism when Brexit takes up all her time to the detriment of other things.

Calyx72 · 15/02/2017 20:05

Wellthatsit Smile

Actually I agree with everything in your last post, it's all true.

WankersHacksandThieves · 17/02/2017 16:06

I'll just leave this here...

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/settler-watch-extremist-links-tartan-9834853

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/02/2017 16:24

I saw that and was Shock If the story is as written (which I have a healthy scepticism about Wink ) then I would hope the SNP would delist her.

There often seems to be much less importance attached to, and scrutinising performed on members of local as opposed to national government which is pretty concerning.