To ask scots if they actually like Nicola sturgeon

[Karen85]

Just out of curiosity really because she and her voice make me cringe when i hear her on tv or radio.

Love scots though please don't get me wrong.

Love.her.

I don't think rUK would stop trading with iScotland would they? Because they are pissed off? Really?

You're missing my point entirely Wankers. We would be able to directly influence ourselves! Scotland ruling Scotland. Within the EU if possible. Making our own decisions. Political parties in power and in opposition for what they see as the best interests of the electorate of Scotland as opposed to the best interests of the Tories.

At the moment we don't need to officially "trade" as we have free movement of goods and services, but a lot of Scottish jobs are dependent on customers in the rest of the UK. Finance for example has a lot of jobs that are effectively only required because of the level of customers in the rest of the UK. I'm not suggesting that Theresa May or whoever might be in power in this scenario might just slam the gates and not allow Scottish goods and services to be sold in rUK, but the demand from people on the street might decrease as they'd want to support their own goods and services and there may also be import taxes applied etc. There is also the currency matter to consider as if we were trading in different currencies there would be exchange rates and fees etc to fator in too.

The UK is our own biggest market, we'd have to be out doing some pretty good trade deals as an independent country in or out of the EU to replace that.

YY Nyx

You're missing my point entirely Wankers.

Well, it was sort of my point which you commented on.

But the people elected to run Scotland already don't represent me and already don't use the powers they have to run Scotland. I really don't see where I am getting more of a voice and that the people of Scotland's interests are any better represented by the SNP who are also serving their own interests in exactly the same way as the Tory party are.

It suits the SNP to keep people downtrodden and hungry and uneducated as the still have someone else to blame for it when actually they already have the power to do something about these things but choose not to.

They don't represent me any more than Westminster does and have no interest in trying to. All they want is independence and any cost and I'm not willing to pay the cost to end up in a worse position.

I don't or didn't identify as British. I always identified as Scottish within the framework of the UK. However I am getting to the point where I am ashamed to be Scottish and that's simply down to the SNP and their followers of the worst kind. They've stolen my identity and my pride and I will never forgive them for that.

You're ashamed to be Scottish because the SNP want self governance and independence in Europe? Or a different reason?

I'm ashamed to be identified with Britain because of the Conservative and UKIP's Brexit and their treatment of EU nationals and their refusal to take unaccompanied refugee children (Dubs) and lots more.

Well I am sorry you feel that way. I am not sure whether you are ashamed of the SNP's stance on EU nationals currently living here (I am ashamed of the British government stance), the Dubs amendment issue (I am horrified at the British government stance), trying to keep Scotland within the EU while the British government merrily burn bridges and cosy up to Trump. I am not sure who you vote for if it isn't Tories (in which case I am not surprised you feel no affinity with the majority of the Scottish electorate) - possibly Labour. They had their chance in Scotland and threw it away. For my part I am embarrassed to be seen as British at the moment, they are toxic. Most policies the British government have are anathema to me. The way they treat the sick and disabled. Selling off the NHS. The way they treat Scotland. After the vote in 2014 they thought they could do anything to Scotland and get away with it because Scotland had voted away their right to complain. They broke just about every promise they made.

Cross post Calyx

It suits the SNP to keep people downtrodden and hungry and uneducated as the still have someone else to blame for it when actually they already have the power to do something about these things but choose not to

This exactly sums it up.

That's not what a Labour Peer stated - Lord Foulkes:

“The SNP are on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.”
Interviewer Colin Mackay:”Is that a bad thing?”
Lord George Foulkes: “No, but they are doing it deliberately.”!!

I struggle to have anyone to vote for to be honest and yes I am a former labour voter.

I don't have any issue with Eu immigration/other immigration but I can understand why some areas in England do. I think I might be a bit more worried about the education and health services being under pressure in some of the towns down south. If your child is in a class with children who speak up to 20 other languages and some of them have no english at all, it would be easy to feel overwhelmed and concerned about the schools ability to give enough time to teaching your child. That will come across as racist, but its really down to pressure of resources. - we are more immune to that certainly where I live. The biggest impact really being the extra bit of supermarket aisle now devoted to eastern european products. It's easier to be welcoming when you don't feel that your own culture is being overtaken.

However I find the SNP in the main racist (against England mainly) and despite their protestations, not that different to other Nationalist parties. I hate that they've made the Scottish flag representative of the worst kind of nationalism.

They slag off Trump (rightfully I add) but think it's okay for them to be "Scotland First" while slagging his "America First" policy. However the fact remains that we need to find a way of dealing with him. It's also all wrong to be jumping up and down about him visiting when we've welcomed visits from all sorts of horrid individuals.

Anyway on that note, I'm off to bed.

However I find the SNP in the main racist (against England mainly)

People keep saying this, but I am yet to see any evidence at all?

but think it's okay for them to be "Scotland First" while slagging his "America First" policy

Civic vs ethnic nationalism msu.edu/user/hillrr/161lec16.htm

What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.”

It's a bit of both, they have some policies which they use to get on peoples nerves and spark controversy such as free prescriptions and uni fees but at the same time fail to address actual real issues that actually could help things such as child poverty etc.they then blame those on westminster. So effectively they take credit for the things they have flung money at but blame westminster for stuff that they took the money from for the other stuff.

They are sleekit as fuck.

Wankers hahahahaha

And you said I was biased

So vote for independence then vote in a party you think will govern Scotland effectively. That is almost the entire point.

Wankers - perhaps take a look at UKIP, sounds to me like that's the party who will agree with your horror at having to have polish food in a British supermarket (). And you are calling the inclusive, welcoming SNP racist. Aye, ok.

I think we disagree totally on our idea of 'the worst kind of nationalism'. Seriously.

Wankers - perhaps take a look at UKIP, sounds to me like that's the party who will agree with your horror at having to have polish food in a British supermarket (shockshockshockshockshock). And you are calling the inclusive, welcoming SNP racist. Aye, ok.

To be fair, I think it was fairly clear that Wankers feels no horror at having Polish food in the supermarket. She's merely saying that having Polish food in the shops is the virtually the only impact we feel up here from European immigration, because the vast majority of it goes to England, and I think that point is fair enough. Immigration isn't something that impacts me either, but I do recognise that it's a lot easier to cry "racist" for objecting to uncontrolled immigration if you're not seeing any of your services stretched by increased demand. I assume "inclusive, welcoming SNP" is ironic; how welcoming are they towards the English or the Tories?

They slag off Trump (rightfully I add) but think it's okay for them to be "Scotland First" while slagging his "America First" policy. However the fact remains that we need to find a way of dealing with him. It's also all wrong to be jumping up and down about him visiting when we've welcomed visits from all sorts of horrid individuals.

I think this is spot on. Trump may be a lunatic, but we have to deal with him, and his affection for the UK means that our PM has the chance to exert influence over him, and has already secured a commitment towards NATO, with much gratitude from various European states. It's simply childish to say that because someone is a nasty individual we want nothing to do with them when that person happens to be the democratically elected leader of our greatest trading partner and ally. (Especially when much worse, unelected leaders have been welcomed in the past.) There are also clear parallels between Trump's 'America first' stance and the SNPs 'Scotland first' rhetoric (even if it dressed up in flowery language about fighting austerity - while implementing policies that benefit the better off), which you could actually argue are fair enough in both cases (because they're serving their electorate). To pretend otherwise is to ignore reality.

The UK prime minister was the first foreign leader invited to the white house and he's spoken on many occasions of his affection for the UK, including wanting to put us at the top of the list for a trade deal. Obviously he's not going to just do everything we ask him to, but I watched that press conference and, while TM did broach the subject of 100% commitment to NATO, Trump clearly then agreed with it. Other countries expressed gratitude to the UK for managing to get that commitment. I think she has a better chance of influencing him than any European leaders for example, who he seems to despise and who treat him with contempt. That's a relationship that isn't going to go well.

I'm sure they don't want anything to do with him mother, but isn't that a rather foolish stance to take? They still need America to be on side, both for trade and for defence, so pissing off their elected leader doesn't seem sensible, especially if Russia is a risk to the EU. How will they get anything from the US if they refuse to engage?

YOU has it correct, I wasn't complaining about eastern European food in the supermarket. Just pointing out that it's easier to be all welcoming when there is no impact on your own lives. I said I can understand how people in some of the town's and cities feel, not that I agree with them necessarily.

And the reality of voting in independence and then putting another party in power is cloud cuckoo land. Do you really think the SNP are going to go "okay peeps, we've got what we want, here you go"? They'll stay in power until they realise they no longer have anyone to blame for the mess or until enough people look behind the curtain to see that the mighty wizard of oz is just a sad lonely old man.