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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Toddler behaviour and food on floor in cafe... AIBU?

420 replies

NettleCake · 01/02/2017 13:36

DD is 18months and won't sit in a highchair for more than 5-10 mins (screams, stands up and tries to climb out!)

We have lunch out most days. Mainly cafes and coffee shops. DD runs off constantly to explore, so I end up chasing her, apologising as she gets in people's way. If the cafe has toys she'll play with them for about 5 mins then loses interest.

What do other mums do? We have things on in town most mornings and afternoons, so too far to go home for lunch.

Also she's very messy, throws food on floor, shakes juice etc. I pick up as much as possible but I'm busy chasing her or holding onto her so often leave some of the mess.
I've had a few cross looks from staff. Am I supposed to ask for a dustpan and brush? If I restrain her in buggy/highchair while I clean the floor she'll scream. DH says not to worry about the floor.

How do we eat out without upsetting people... and how long does this stage last?

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 02/02/2017 23:30

It all sounds quite full on, especially if she's waking at night twice.

Don't get her out of the high chair immediately at home and keep her there a bit longer meal by meal, she'll get used to sitting there a bit longer etc.

BITCAT · 02/02/2017 23:32

Personally having worked in restaurants, cafes and retail outlets..I don't mind toddlers or young children making a mess. You kind of expect it because they are little as not as good at getting that food in their mouth..most don't do it on purpose and most parents will try to clean up best they can. It is my job to clean up..I don't mind..wipe the highchair down clean the table sweep the floor and mop if needs be.
What winds me up more than a toddler or young child making a little mess, is teenagers or grown adults leaving an absolute tip behind them and having little to no manners. Most of the young children are very polite and lovely...I had a small child fall off her chair and bump her head sat with her parents she dropped her milkshake everywhere...parents looked stressed and were panicking about the mess. I checked the little girl was OK..got her a new milkshake and an ice cream..and cleaned up her spillage. Having 4 children of my own, we should be cutting parents some slack it's not easy toddlers will be toddlers. I do agree though having a toddler running around a cafe or restaurant is not safe thinking of the child's safety more than anything. A little kindness goes a long way.

craftycarls · 03/02/2017 00:14

OP good for you for listening to all the advice which is good advice. I have had 4 children all of which have been energetic to say the least! I have found that they understand a lot more than we give them credit for! My eldest got away with murder as I thought he was too young to understand rules. My 15 month old is already learning table manners and general dos and don'ts. He likes to slap but I have been firm with him and now he strokes instead. He doesn't talk yet but does understand. If your DD screams it is probably more upsetting for you than anyone else in the cafe so strap her in high chair or buggy and be firm and stand your ground. She will learn but these things take time and consistency and they all develop at different ages but I'm sure she won't be doing it in 10 years 😀 Good luck

Awesome3kids · 03/02/2017 00:40

I take kids to play centre they can play then they happily sit down and eat
Cafes are too much hard work with twins
Ikea is good
Or feed them in an Asda shopping trolley as we go around they like that and if all else fails and I know this will be frowned upon sticjbin a cartoon or nursery rhym thing on YouTube . I have 3 year old twins and an 18 month old so sometimes it's needed

luckylorca · 03/02/2017 00:42

I agree with craftycarls: European kids behave in public beautifully because their parents take their kids to eat out A LOT starting from when they are REALLY young, so it becomes the norm, not a special occasion. They also ensure that they are STRICT at all times. Consistency is key. (Running around would never be allowed! They would never let their toddlers create hell or misbehave.)

In general, us Brits are unreasonable. We either let our kids run riot, which they then think is reasonable behaviour, or take them to restaurants for the first time when they're 5 years old and just expect them to somehow know how to behave!!

Continue to take her out but strap her into her chair firmly, show her who's boss, and give her little punishments (e.g. "No icecream later") if she doesn't sit nicely.

Not rocket science.

Awesome3kids · 03/02/2017 00:43

I used to sit mine down in their high chair and make them play with colour or play dough just so they got used to the high chair when they went through this stroppy phase

mainlywingingit · 03/02/2017 00:45

We had this and took a 6 month break of eating out. Much much better all round. Not your toddlers fault- just need the phase to end .

Lulu49 · 03/02/2017 01:24

Are you seriously out all day every day? Got to ask yourself if that's really necessary! If u can could you organise something to do at your house and maybe invite a couple of other mums and their kids

JustJayne1959 · 03/02/2017 06:41

She is bored! She is also acting just like a normal toddler when they don't want to do something. Why do you absolutely have to go to cafes every single day?
She isn't your best friend to sit and have a coffee with and a chat, she's a child who needs stimulation and play, interaction, to be able to run around and explore. I'm hazarding a guess that whilst you're not going home because it's pointless, she's in her buggy being pushed around for hours on end? She is protesting!
Go home. Let her play with her toys. Do things with her. Feed her at home, at a table, in one of the strap on seats available or even in the living room using a special child size table and chair; however you do it, she needs her own surroundings and maybe an outing a couple of times a week, not every day!

Skooba · 03/02/2017 07:02

Long walks, take the buggy for when she is too tired to walk further. Feed the ducks, look for rabbits whatever. Listen to you ipod (but obviously interact if she wants to).

A calm, quiet, boring life. For a week, say, and see how she is.

emmyrose2000 · 03/02/2017 07:35

*Letting a child scream in a cafe is never acceptable no matter how "child friendly" you deem it to be. Other people don't want to listen to it. If you can't calm them down quickly then go out until they are calm.

It's a shame a small minority of parents seem to interpret child friendly as "anything goes" - sadly it's no wonder some places are now making the decision to ban young children really*.

Exactly!
It doesn't matter whether it's McDonalds or The Ritz, creating a disturbance and annoying the other patrons is just not on.

44PumpLane · 03/02/2017 07:46

Sorry I haven't rtft but just a suggestion for yikes you are out- buy cheap dustpan and brush, stick it under the pram, it'll be very light and then you can have a quick sweep about and stick the debris in a nappy sack or the bin.... job done.

emmyrose2000 · 03/02/2017 07:47

*I agree with craftycarls: European kids behave in public beautifully because their parents take their kids to eat out A LOT starting from when they are REALLY young, so it becomes the norm, not a special occasion. They also ensure that they are STRICT at all times. Consistency is key. (Running around would never be allowed! They would never let their toddlers create hell or misbehave.)

In general, us Brits are unreasonable. We either let our kids run riot, which they then think is reasonable behaviour, or take them to restaurants for the first time when they're 5 years old and just expect them to somehow know how to behave!!*

What utter rubbish.

On my last trip to France, particularly Disneyland, the most badly behaved kids were visitors from one other particular nearby European country. Throwing food around in restaurants, running amok, screaming and generally using the restaurants as a playground. All while their "parents" sat around and smiled indulgently. It was horrifying and not something I've ever encountered on such a mass scale before.

At one other Disney restaurant we were sitting next to a thoroughly delightful and well behaved English toddler (2.5years I think). After the disgusting and horrifying behaviour from the children of the one particular European country I couldn't resist complimenting the mother on her child. I agree with her reply, which was that it comes down to consistently working on it, and not letting bad behaviour become the norm. Thinking about it now, most of the British children we encountered in the UK a few weeks later were reasonably well behaved.

(I'm not from any of the countries mentioned in this thread, so have no horse in this race. Just pointing out an observation).

user1480954406 · 03/02/2017 08:21

There are pages and pages and pages of mum's criticising this woman because her baby is behaving like a baby and she dares to take him out to baby groups. Can't win.

Some people out there just hate kids and would find it as annoying if the child were laughing. It's really not a big deal for a child to have a cry in a cafe. and unreasonable to expect mum's to be able control every aspect of an 18mos behaviour, and even more unreasonable to say she shouldn't go to cafes. She has just as much right to be there as anybody else.

If you don't want crumbs or noise then q simple, don't have high chairs so mum's can't come in. But that would be discriminstory so... oh wait?

splendide · 03/02/2017 08:25

Most impossible to keep in a highchair toddler I know is Italian.

Spikeyball · 03/02/2017 08:33

It is unreasonable to have a child cry for long periods in a cafe. I still remove my 11 year old with severe sn if he is upset for long periods so having to cut short visits, for a few years at most in most cases is no great hardship.

unfortunateevents · 03/02/2017 09:15

She has just as much right to be there as anybody else - yes, she does. She does not have the right to let her child run around around the feet of other customers and staff. No-one is saying that children should not be allowed in restaurants or cafes but in this case the child is obviously not ready or enjoying it and it's several times a week! The OP says her DC is so lively that she can't manage to clean up the mess she makes because sh can't let go of her child to do so. No one is saying that she shouldn't go to baby groups etc either but twice a day on any day that the mother is with the child is obviously not working in this case. Other children might thrive on it.

Hutch2017 · 03/02/2017 09:25

I'm not sure why you are eating out all the time then? I just accepted the fact that my kids wouldn't behave in cafes and restaurants so just didn't take them. Now they are at an age where its less stressful, we do it more often. Why put this stress on yourself?

littledinaco · 03/02/2017 09:33

If your DD is happy being out and about all day then don't feel you have to stay in with her. You know her best.

From what you've said about her (she sounds lovely by the way) I don't think it would be easy to teach her to stay in the highchair without a lot of screaming and I don't think it would be very fair on her, particularly if she has no interest in eating.
You might just have to change how you do things so lunch out in country pubs might be a no go for a while.
You say one of you walks round the pub with her - I would honestly stop doing this as it's not teaching her that restaurants/pubs are not for walking round in. It will be confusing for her once she gets older to suddebly say she's not allowed to walk round if that's what she's always done. That's how you see 4 and 5 year olds getting down and wantering off in restaurants- they don't just suddenly start to do this and probably aren't even being naughty, it's just what they have always been allowed to do so they don't know any different.
In the nicest possible way, I find it really annoying when parents do this. I make mine sit at the table and I feel it's not fair on them when they see other kids walking round. I think taking her outside is fine though while you wait for the meal,etc.
I would stick to soft play/play cafes while she's at this stage.

I found that if the kids were happy then I was less stressed and we all had a much nicer time.

SomethingBorrowed · 03/02/2017 09:43

so is the mumsnet line here generally that mum's of toddlers should never leave the house with their toddlers and not feed them in any cafes incase they annoy other patrons by being toddlers?

Just the ones who are unable to stay in a highchair for the duration of the coffee/meal AND who don't accept being strapped in a buggy AND who don't obey when asked to stay next to the table.
So most mums and toddlers are ok...

JanuaryMoods · 03/02/2017 09:55

Laughing at all the people saying this is normal for toddlers. Of course it is but as parents we're supposed to stop this sort of behaviour not expect the rest of the world to put up with it.

If you can't be arsed to keep your DCs under control keep them away from the rest of us until you can.

ghostspirit · 03/02/2017 10:01

If I was in a cafe that's like a treat for be to enjoy. If my toddler was playing up simlar to ops toddler. I would finish food/drink and leave. I don't see the point in going as I can't enjoy it and it's just stressing me and toddler out. I would probably try once a fortnight to see if he's anymore chilled.

About the food being thrown on the floor. When ds was slightly younger I would only give him one thing at a time
So if dropped I just pick it upso it's not to over the top.

NettleCake · 03/02/2017 12:16

You say one of you walks round the pub with her - I would honestly stop doing this as it's not teaching her that restaurants/pubs are not for walking round in. It will be confusing for her once she gets older

Your post has really made me think! I hadn't thought about the long-term impact of this but you're right. I certainly dont want her thinking it's ok to wander when she's older! TBH it's pretty exhausting in a pub as she keeps darting behind the bar/into the toilets/approaching other kids and has tantrums when picked up or put on reins. Worse than cafes as food takes ages. I think a chat with DH is needed! He loves dining out as a family but it's not fun for DD at the moment. She often makes repeatedly for the door so maybe finds pubs too noisy. I need to brush up my picnic making skills or find somewhere she likes! There is a softplay place near us but it only serves burgers.

Agree she might benefit from more time with me and no environmental distractions, so we're going to try more time at home and work on highchair manners. Then try some quick lunches out with friends and leave as soon as she starts screaming. I guess teaching not to run off is a bit like sleep training?

OP posts:
beela · 03/02/2017 12:47

Nettlecake* I just wanted to say fair play to you for sticking with this thread and taking the advice on board. You have had a bit of a roasting!

It will get easier - I think that stage of toddlerhood was the hardest by far with my DS. DD is a much calmer different character, and I now understand how some of my friends with little ones managed to get out for coffees.... some children are just happier to do that sort of thing.

Don't worry though, you will be out the other side before you know it.

Flowers
LEGOSlytherin · 03/02/2017 13:09

Nettlecake, I think you're being quite wonderful about this. As beela mentioned, you've stick with the thread and seem eager to accept advice being given. For that I wholeheartedly commend you.

I don't have anything more to add except some things that have already been said:

DD seems overstimulated and seems to have begun to equate time with you as a bit rushed, a bit GO GO GO and that may be perpetuating her behaving in that manner.

I have a 15 yo, a tonne of nieces and nephews and I was a professional nanny so I have years of experience with toddlers and, as disappointing as it may sound, the only way to help DD out of her obstructive behaviour is to help her unlearn it.

Walking around with her means that she has her way. Try working at home first, at dinner time, say, and asking her to remain in her high chair for a few minutes after she's finished. Explain why (mummy and daddy are still eating, dinner isn't over yet, etc.) and don't be afraid that she won't understand the nuances of the behaviour you expect or your reasons for them: She will. Perhaps not down to details but she will understand the gist of what you expect.

And she will rebel! She's used to things a certain way and she won't like the idea that they are changing but be firm. Perhaps set a certain small time limit that you would like her to sit for after dinner. Then, once the time is up, explain to her that you're happy she sat and that she may now get down from the table, but be FIRM when she resists. If you keep the time small to start with and then SLOWLY extend the time once she gets used to it and can sit, she can learn at a healthy pace what it is that you want from her and she can be proud in making you happy when she's done as you've asked. She won't even realise that you're stretching the time sitting because, like it or not, children of that age have no concept of time. I believe, eventually, if she is given no other option but to sit, she will learn to sit. If she's not given the chance to be taken out of the highchair until you decide it's time, she will stop expecting to get out of the chair. When she does finally start sitting for the short amounts of time, as each one is up, praise her, thank her, let her know her behaviour was what you wanted, what you expected of her. Rewarding good behaviour helps to positively reinforce what she's done right and will show her that she doesn't need to misbehave to have mummy's attention.

I think the something similar could be done with throwing. The next time she throws something, grab the item and give it back to her. Look her in the eyes and say clearly "No. Please do not throw things." - If you have to kneel down to get to her level, please do so - eye contact is super important here, she needs to know you're serious. Repeat as necessary. It may be that you have to remove the object thrown and this would be particularly effective if it's something she likes but has thrown in anger. Removing the object and then looking DD in the eye as you say "No. Please do not throw things." as above.

None of this will be easy and it will take time as you have to SHOW her what is expected of her. This will be easier if it's just the two of you, at home, where she can have your one-on-one focus and attention. That will help remove the immediate desire to act out to gain your attention like she would at a cafe.

She won't learn it overnight. But, if you're consistent and firm with her when there are rules and praise and thank her when she does what's expected, I think you'll find she starts to behave quite differently inside and outside the house.

*The above is entirely my opinion and your mileage may vary but I have personally raised three children, raised four professionally and had/have a hand in several more. Please, genuinely, ask if there's anything you'd like me to clarify or expand upon.

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