Toddler behaviour and food on floor in cafe... AIBU?

[NettleCake]

DD is 18months and won't sit in a highchair for more than 5-10 mins (screams, stands up and tries to climb out!)

We have lunch out most days. Mainly cafes and coffee shops. DD runs off constantly to explore, so I end up chasing her, apologising as she gets in people's way. If the cafe has toys she'll play with them for about 5 mins then loses interest.

What do other mums do? We have things on in town most mornings and afternoons, so too far to go home for lunch.

Also she's very messy, throws food on floor, shakes juice etc. I pick up as much as possible but I'm busy chasing her or holding onto her so often leave some of the mess.
I've had a few cross looks from staff. Am I supposed to ask for a dustpan and brush? If I restrain her in buggy/highchair while I clean the floor she'll scream. DH says not to worry about the floor.

How do we eat out without upsetting people... and how long does this stage last?

Letting a child scream in a cafe is never acceptable no matter how "child friendly" you deem it to be. Other people don't want to listen to it. If you can't calm them down quickly then go out until they are calm.

It's a shame a small minority of parents seem to interpret child friendly as "anything goes" - sadly it's no wonder some places are now making the decision to ban young children really.

As a former waitress, chocolate muffin smooshed into the carpet and then left by mums with toddlers was one of the most annoying things and really rude.

However, if a nice mum tries to clear food mess up and I could see her hassled with a grumpy toddler, I'd fetch the dustpan and help her.

It does sound like not much fun at the moment for you in cafes.
Rather than worrying about how to entertain her whilst you're out, is there the possibility of reducing her activities for a bit so you don't have to eat out so much?

Does she do the same at home?
Perhaps she isn't hungry enough as she has already had a snack? If she was really hungry, I'd have thought she would be interested at that age to sit and eat her lunch?

Agree with @pollygon, it sounds like your DD is past the 'baby' stage where they are happy to be out and about all day and you can take them anywhere without too much stress.
I noticed a difference in general behaviour when I really spent one to one time, agree about feeling more connected. Especially if you work, they can often crave the type of attention that's hard to give when you're out with friends.

If your DD has an early nap, can you maybe play at home in the morning, give her a nap then lunch then maybe catch up with your friends in the afternoon for the afternoon group.

It's totally unacceptable to let a child wander around in a coffee shop. It's not cute. It's not being a good, tolerate parent. It's down right dangerous and selfish. Your child is scalded by hot tea when she trips up another customer or a waitress and either the poor person feels unnecessarily guilty for life or you sue and make it someone else's fault darling Tulip is disfigured. Go home and follow your child around there like other people do. Your schedule is your problem. This has made me cross. Entitled and irresponsible

so is the mumsnet line here generally that mum's of toddlers should never leave the house with their toddlers and not feed them in any cafes incase they annoy other patrons by being toddlers?

Marks and Spencer's and JL Sep babyfood and kids meals, which is ridiculously overpriced Costa sel babycinos for 50p to
Attract mum's with young kids. Starbucks make them for free. What do they expect? For all children to be immaculately behaved? I have on many a day when we have nothing to do and I don't want to clean up the crumbs taken my kids for a costa so I can have a drink I haven't made. Costa is my happy place, and DS loves it. I don't leave a huge mess and my kids don't have meltdowns but I wouldn't fee embarrassed over a bit of crumbs/smushed muffin. I think if you are a waitress in a cafe which presents itself as child friendly (i.e. Selling toddler meals/free toddler drinks) you really need to get a grip of a smushed muffin is the most stressful part of your day. I mean? Get a different job.

Do you have any soft play centres close by? All the benefits of a cafe (food, hot drinks, sitting with friends chatting) but a much more suitable environment for a spirited toddler! Can fit in with what you normally do at home...sit in the high chair to eat then disappear off to play again. You can tidy up whilst they're playing safely, but I tend to find staff are walking round with brushes/hoovers too!

Sounds like you are doing too much.. Out all day 😱 Maybe chill a bit, time at home, pracice highchair eating, naps. I used to do a morning activity then home for lunch and nap. Tired toddlers are gruesome! I think you should always clean up your mess in cafes/restaurants...or at least offer.

Nettlecake I totally understand the need to be out and about - I would've gone mad trapped in my flat all day with my little one. I suggest you try a soft play cafe - a lot of them now have an under 3's only area where you can safely allow your little girl to run and play to her heart's content while you watch her whilst having something to eat and drink - she can keep coming back and snacking instead of you both getting stressed trying to force her to stay in one place and eat. Good luck it does get easier

Hey Nettle I was incredibly lucky with my 3 and their behaviour eating out but I think I'm in the minority despite what mum's net may have you believe. Sounds like she's at a really tricky in between stage. Don't worry! I've seen loads of friends go through this with children and counted my lucky stars!! At the toddling stage I tended to take picnics and eat outside if I needed to be away from home. We've had picnics in the rain and snow.... sounds awful but if your warm and relatively dry it can be fun! Soup and a thermos was a staple and it works out so much cheaper. I expect that child friendly places expect a degree of misbehaviour- but there's definitely a limit. Absolutely ask for something to clear up the mess with , at least staff know your aware and are being considerate.

Baby food and kids meals don't equal safety. Children should not be allowed to run around restaurants and coffee shops. Have you ever had a latte in Costa? How long does it take to get cool enough to drink? Imagine that spilt on your child. Elderly lady trips over your wandering, spinning toddler and one of them is badly hurt. They either behave or you choose a different meeting place. OPs friends would surely understand.

I totally wouldn't let a child run around as I said before, I was talking purely about the noise and mess (within reason)

heres a few things me and family have had success with.
only giving her the pieces as she takes and eats.so one slice of cucumber. don't let her access to the whole meal until she can promise to eat politely.then slowly increase the size.if she chucks even the one piece then say nope no more.done.
every time she screams.strap in buggy.they do stop screaming. but if she doesn't you take her outside and sit,read let her scream until she looks at you confused that mummy strong and wont giv in.and try again.
it make take some time at first to teach her YOU WONT GIVE IN.
then try back in chair.if she does it again right straight back into buggy.it was a tiring lunch we did this ten time but then after the last time she realised we were the strgoner one here and she sat quietly sniffing and eating. it worked but you have to be strong lol and feel a little cruel.
start off strapped in buggy and get right down to her level and say "you cant not sit in the big people chair until you leanr to be a good girl understand.hard cold don't waver. make her sit.show you she can eat from the buggy first. do this for a whole lunch.
get down again "well done.tomorrow shall we try in the big chair and have a nicer time eating again like a good girl." well done babes! you did it!pastry?like a dog haha reward when she achieves the goal!

Picnic, park, soft play cafe. I'd save the normal cafes til she can sit better. I'd be too embarrassed to keep going through that every day!

Have some home days or you'll get to the 'entertain meeeeee' stage when she's actually old enough to entertain herself (she kind of is now, for short periods)

Get her walking and only use the buggy when she starts to get tired. Do the cafe thing occasionally but have lunch in the park even if it's bought as take away from a cafe. The walking will make her happier to sit and eat. I tended to use cafes with sofas rather than highchairs so my dd could sit next to me and talk/play.

Some crumbs and a bit of child noise is fine. Letting your child purposely make a mess or persistently scream isn't on. They are probably bored and you need to entertain them or move on.

My dd behaved exactly like this and she ended up being diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. People were often very disapproving (I didn't ever let her run around in cafes but neither did I want to be housebound) and I found it very stressful. You do have to do picnics regardless of the weather and otherwise stick to cafes in parks where she can get down and run around safely outside. Or distract at table looking at screen for short periods if you want to be able to sit down and eat in a cafe - not with sound but mine used to like looking at photos or doing those Peppa Pig games. Worth it if it means you can get to eat your food!

Can you not arrange to meet your friends at each other's houses? It's much more relaxing, plenty of toys and cheaper. You could still be out and about for a morning/afternoon activity. You could all take it in turns to host. I used to spend a lot of time 'visiting'. I also had a horror of cafes because dd1 was exactly like yours, OP!

Just reading your post made me feel exhausted

barbarian Bullshit to you too. I spend every summer in Italy, France or Spain and young children are quite capable of sitting at a table in a restaurant without kicking off. As did my child who is English.

Oh my word mumsnetters. How negative can we be.

I have been this mum. I still am, my beautiful DD at 28 months is a nightmare anywhere I go. Even to the park. She is perfect and perfectly normal but is incredibly intelligent outgoing confident and curious. We don't have much income so cafe lunches are a treat but even soft play is challenging and as some have mentioned it should be easier. Getting out of a park is even harder whether there is a play area or not. So yes sorry a cafe is a place for a child and sorry to those like I have who have had experience of both sides of the cafe counter but it's your job. If you don't want the custom don't moan a supermarket is far worse believe me I've worked in them as well. As for the running around my DD does this and she is told gently and with increasing firmness to stop and eat/ read/play or the fun is over but being 28 months social norms are lost on her.
So please people allow a child to be a child not a mini grown up before they need to be

Both my kids were like this, and mostly I would avoid eating out. Generally though, if we had to go out, I would mostly end up sweating, holding onto them with one arm wrapped round them, frantically sweeping and scrubbing at the carpet/floor with baby wipes and napkins.

My toddler 18 months will only do lunch in a cafe straight after a morning activity or after he's had a nap. So we constantly eat out either at 11am or after 2. He's an absolute nightmare if he stays awake all day and is the type of child that only sleeps in his cot so I try to only schedule one activity a day or I'd go mad

sounds a gruelling schedule

Apparently this is majority opinion, so maybe it is too much for her and she's overstimulated. She seems to love being out though particularly swimming.

The mornings are toddler groups (no structure, just free play with a bit of singing at end) I tend to play with her on a 1:1 or she tantrums. Lunch used to be catch-up time with mums from these groups. Afternoons: TumbleTots one day, next 2 usually swimming. It's just her and me swimming not a lesson, so mainly splashing around playing with floats and noodles. Usually home by 4pm so a few hours of quiet play until bedtime.

At weekends we usually have one day in one day out (zoo/farm/seeing family/walk etc). This used to involve lunch in nice country pub but last few times have been too difficult, either DH or I has to walk around pub with her or take her for wander in pub garden while the other eats!

People who trained their DC to sit in highchair without screaming to get down, how did you do it and how long did it take? DD doesn't like eating much so often rejects all food and wants to get down immediately!

OP have you asked her nursery how they handle your DD at mealtimes and what her routine is on nursery days for naps, activities and snacks? Maybe she has a different routine which works or they give her a particular toy to play with. They may be able to give you some practical tips. There's no harm in asking.

It sounds like your child is not ready for eating out,she is obviously bored by the experience so maybe you should put her needs first for a while and try again when she is more able to behave in a way that does not ruin everyone else's lunch
My son was very good at restaurants from a very early age so I was lucky but I really would have been mortified if he had behaved in the way you are describing. Running around in a coffee shop full of hot drinks is dangerous