Toddler behaviour and food on floor in cafe... AIBU?

[NettleCake]

DD is 18months and won't sit in a highchair for more than 5-10 mins (screams, stands up and tries to climb out!)

We have lunch out most days. Mainly cafes and coffee shops. DD runs off constantly to explore, so I end up chasing her, apologising as she gets in people's way. If the cafe has toys she'll play with them for about 5 mins then loses interest.

What do other mums do? We have things on in town most mornings and afternoons, so too far to go home for lunch.

Also she's very messy, throws food on floor, shakes juice etc. I pick up as much as possible but I'm busy chasing her or holding onto her so often leave some of the mess.
I've had a few cross looks from staff. Am I supposed to ask for a dustpan and brush? If I restrain her in buggy/highchair while I clean the floor she'll scream. DH says not to worry about the floor.

How do we eat out without upsetting people... and how long does this stage last?

Hello OP, I used to take my son for a walk or go to the park for half an hour and then go to the cafe, in the highchair- straps are a must- he could climb out and I practised at home so that he knew he didn't get out until we were finished- there is no trick- a book or soft toy distraction or little cars to broom on the tray or table but I didn't let him out at home no matter how much fuss he made- he quickly learnt to sit there and I built it up so we could enjoy family meal or lunch out. It's hard but worth it. I am not being smug. I do feel your pain.

However- I have never left a massive mess. You need to clear up after your toddler.

Hey Nettlecake - I think you were looking for a little sympathy and understanding. It seems, looking at some of these replies that the response was a little harsh!! Myself and DH have tried a few times taking out DS and DD 3 yrs and 1yr. It is not fun, enjoyable or easy so we have just decided (sadly) that its more hassle than its worth and resigned ourselves to the fact that those days are gone for now. They will be back!! Dont worry!! When the children are older they will enjoy being taken out for lunches and dinners but right now at this age, they much prefer to be at home with Mummy (and or Daddy), its safe, quiet, they have routine.....I tried to be busy and fun and go to loads of groups but the kids are so much happier/easier when we just do 1 or 2 things a week in the morning and the rest of the time at home. Maybe the odd lunch at someones house or here (early) but they always behave the best when its just us at home together!! It just works! Sad but true! You just gotta embrace it! It wont be long and they will be at school all day!!!

My son is 20 .months, he want a out as soon as he's eaten. Sometimes distraction and singing and toys works. Sometimes he'll just scream. Call me a bad mom but I can't think of anything worse for him than keeping him in his highchair for another 20 minutes screaming and sobbing because I'm still eating!

This might be useful? www.emotionallyawarefeeding.com/blog/2016/8/13/help-my-two-year-old-wont-sit-at-the-table

My daughter is 20months. We don't eat out too often. She will sit nicely as long as she has thing to occupy her. I usually take some crayons and colouring book or stickers (she loves these). Worst case she'll sit quietly for ages it she can play on my phone or watch bing (she's perfectly happy to do this with no sound on).
I think a toddler throwing stuff on the floor is inevitable. I always try and pick up what she's dropped but have found the majority of places don't mind anyway. I've seen people not even attempt to clean up after their toddlers so do not stress yourself too much.

That sounds like a good plan Nettlecake it is a phase that will pass. She's only 18 months, keep reinforcing good table behaviour at home, and try cafes again in 6 months!

We actually enjoy going out for meals now but it took a while to get there.

Sorry sounds a gruelling schedule, just do one thing in the am or afternoon, eat some home cooked food at home, do some general play either side at home/ move so you don't live miles away from where you need to be! Doesn't need to be a full on schedule, and I would think home food would be healthier, and you're not bothering anyone else if they decide their going to have a screaming fit to get out their chair, you can enforce that is what's happening so they have to get used to it and no one else is bothered / on the flip side if you're happy for them to run around and not be in the high chair they're not going to be scalded. Don't go somewhere and expect low paid service staff to clean up an almighty mess!

I confess I haven't read all posts, but suggest this is a power/attention thing. Of course an 18 month old wouldn't understand the "concept " of manners, but understands that screaming, standing up, throwing food etc, means mummy's attention is guaranteed, and they get what they want.
I'd say that at 18 months, I'd introduce them to " sitting nicely", at home or anywhere, by praising whenever they are sitting nicely. The next bit might need co-operation from cafe staff. I'd take her for a practice run ( choose a quiet time in the cafe!). Before going I'd tell the wee one that the rule is that we " sit nicely at lunch" I'd explain to the staff that you're going to ignore the misbehaviour, and that you will clear up before you leave. Give loads of praise and attention when she is sitting nicely. Ignore misbehaviour. She may well go through her whole repertoire to try to regain control, but you need to be able to remain calm and in control.
This is not the easiest of situations to practice, so it depends how important it is to you. You may find it easier just to make other arrangements for lunch!

YABU. She's only 18 months old. Completely normal behaviour for a toddler this age, to expect anything different is unrealistic. Probably advisable to change your schedule (which sounds quite stressful and demanding for a young child) until she is older and able to manage.

Reminds me of scenario xx years ago, when previously angelic baby, who could spend up to 2 hrs in restaurant amusing self with toys/ contents of wallet/ pulling faces, had the temerity to turn into a toddler.

Those few, but often swanky lunches/ dinners (accompanied by our very smug faces 'this parenting lark's a doddle') were swiftly replaced with a foray into Pizza Express (which have to say are stars in this field, the staff couldn't have been kinder). We lasted 40 minutes. 40. And were mortified - those poor people sat next to us, DH & I taking it in turns to entertain the darling monster, who thought the pizza oven was the latest soft play area (who wouldn't?). Next time was the same - our angelic baby now wanted to explore and restaurants/ cafes are for many things, but not a roaming small swirling dervish.

We saved our money & sanity (and that of others') & did not eat out with small thing for a while, without rota support (and also even smaller one , who arrived soon after). Best decision for everyone.

What we DID do, was to continue with proper dining experience at home - getting used to sitting at table, socialising, being excused after a fair time etc. This was a wonderful time & it wasn't so long before we headed back to restaurants etc - probably a couple of years. And when we did, it was a breeze and so enjoyable.

And our younger's fave restaurant? Pizza Express, of course

You may well be building a rod for your own back if you don't start teaching your child about manners - 18 months is not too early- if she can laugh at you defiantly when you tell her no, then she does have a concept. Put it this way, she is learning that it's ok to run around cafes, jump on furniture at home etc and if you don't address that, you are teaching her that this is acceptable behaviour and in the long run it will be harder to deal with.

When my DS would throw food, it would be taken away. If he had a meltdown in a cafe - we would get up, tidy up and leave. You need to be consistent and she will get the message.

As suggested , perhaps look at different groups and environments to take her to. Is there a chance that she is over stimulated at home - if so maybe some quiet time with her in a room with no tv/distractions/noise etc for even just 10 mins would calm her down (this worked with my DS).

Also, get the nursery on board when addressing challenging behaviours - ensuring consistency (if you haven't already).

I have a 21 month old and he is super active too. I used to go to cafes/restaurants quite a bit when he was younger, but it's just too stressful at the moment, so I just accepted that for a while this is not an option.
We do a class every morning, go home, he has a nap and lunch, and then we sometimes go out in the afternoons, sometimes have friends visiting.... and sometimes we play on our own. I also realised that his routine sometimes changes, nap times change etc. you have to take that into account and that's a priority.
We have loads of toys/things to do at home and my son gets bored too after 10-15 minutes, it's normal.
Don't stress yourself out by eating out so much, as I am sure it's not enjoyable for you, as you have to run around, apologise and chase.
It's a stage that won't last forever.

Is there a soft play cafe near you? This was a lifesaver for me when DS2 was small. You still have to supervise but somehow it's more fun.

She needs some alone time - stick her in her room on her own with a bucket of dinosaurs or similar to entertain herself - on her own. She will learn to be more settled and resilient. I used to "neglect" my children for an hour a day at that age and they would sit babbling away at whatever toy they had. Ignore her for a bit and let her develop a bit of independence

jaguar67 excellent post. Completely agree with your point about having family meals at home around a table, as this gets them used to how to behave in cafes/restaurants. Ignoring bad behaviour and praising good behaviour is much easier to do at home when you don't have to worry about other people!

She needs some alone time - stick her in her room on her own with a bucket of dinosaurs or similar to entertain herself - on her own
Seriously??? She's a toddler

This isn't an issue in Western Europe where toddlers are regularly out in restaurants with their families.

I'm sure she'll mellow as she gets older (and is gently shown what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, once she's old enough to get that) but in the meantime I'd be taking one for the team and accepting that it's simply not appropriate to eat out with her every day. Aside from anything else, that's a lot of time spent out of the house for her - possibly a bit of a stress for her, let alone you? I know it can be a nightmare being stuck in the house with a hyperactive toddler though, you do have my sympathies - but you need to find a more appropriate venue like a park, play centre, toddler group etc. Can you feed her a picnic lunch at toddler group (if other people are doing this too and it's 'allowed')? I'd say if she regularly acts like this in cafes, and you eat out a lot, then she's demonstrating to you that she doesn't really want to be in there.

For comparison, DS2 (6) is fairly severely autistic and I do like sitting in a café with a coffee and babyccino with him. I think it's a great place for him to learn social skills and how to behave - however, if he's not up for it (refusing to stay put/being shouty/otherwise not relaxed) I then grab my coffee and take him out. I always pick up any mess he's made and mop the table if necessary. I have to balance his needs to socialise, the other customers' needs for a relatively peaceful cuppa, and my need for a bloody coffee!

TBH, sometimes, because his behaviour is so untypical compared with a neurotypical 6 yo, I have to step back and try and see it disinterestedly - is he really being very loud? is anyone looking disgruntled? - because obviously we get used to our children's behaviour, whether or not they're neurotypical.

This isn't an issue in Western Europe where toddlers are regularly out in restaurants with their families.

Oh bullshit. I have family and friends in Germany, France, Spain and Italy. And in each of these countries I've seen parents of toddlers pick outdoor venues (pavement cafes on plazas are good, ditto park cafes) so their kids can run round whilst parents sit and eat/drink/chat

i volunteer in a church cafe once a week & the mess left behind by mothers with toddlers in unbelievable ,very few offer to clean up after themselves , leaving me wondering about the state if their homes.
why is it necessary to have things scheduled for your kids all the time ? cant you just let them play at home sometimes.

My DS was just the same. MIL and I used to like to take the twins to the local Hungry Horse pub - cheap and cheerful but child friendly and nobody batted an eyelid if the children were noisy or ran about the place (though you still have to watch out for waiters carrying stuff). But I took toys to distract them as much as poss, and always picked up the worst of the mess! I would never have tried a normal café or coffee shop unless clearly labelled 'child friendly' - and normal pubs/restaurants were definitely no go until much later! Agree - do picnics when it's nice, or find a suitable venue (and don't be snobby about 'naff' places, when you have toddlers you're unlikely to go to the naice places you went when you were single, it's a whole new mindset now....!!).

I also work part time, and I've learnt the hard way that my toddler really wants some one on one time with me on our days together. Her behaviour is so much better if we don't do too much, and if we just do things together rather than always meeting up with friends - particularly if she has lots of developmental stuff going on (as I think 18mos do). Obviously you sometimes want to do stuff that suits you, but I think if you have a few weeks of more low-key days everything might get a bit better. Maybe still do a group in the morning, then lunch at home, a nap and then you can always break the afternoon up by going to the park or something if you have one nearby. It sounds like you're feeling a bit overwhelmed with her at the moment, but if you do this you'll hopefully feel more connected with her again, and then when you do do things like going to cafes it will feel more manageable for both of you.

I'm am on 3rd child. 1st 2 were twins and we did everything, every club etc. 3rd child and I just do not have the time or energy and whilst we do the odd toddler group and lunch out, the rest of the time she is playing at home with her own toys, using her imagination etc whilst I'm clearing up the chaos of 3 kids. And do you know what, she walked earlier than the others, talked earlier and is all round happy all the time. Kids don't need constant am and pm entertainment. Please give yourself a break, take a step back and in about 6 months time she will be past the phase and you can start booking stuff up again. Far too much pressure on 1st time mums to have to do EVERYthing. They just don't need it and nor do you!

Can't wait to get jumped on here for saying this but here we go...

I think it's a matter of where you go, marks and Spencer's/John lewis/Costa are usually very child friendly and don't seem to mind about the mess. I do usually clean up any big bits off the floor but my dd tends to smush up biscuits into crumbs which does make a mess, but I've never had a member of staff say anything but "don't worry" (although I do always apologise if there is a mess). I also wouldn't worry too much about your 18mo making noise or screaming. She's a child, and tbh I think if you're eating in a cafe, especially those that are more canteeny like JL or M&s you ha e to expect this to a certain degree. My 4yo behaves beautifully in a cafe but my lo very quickly gets bored and will make noise, but she's a baby, and sometimes that can't be avoided if you are out.

To anybody telling op what she should or shouldn't be doing with her days off I would say mind your own business, she's asking whether she should clean up not for generally parenting advice. If she wants to take her dd out on her day off and do lots of activities it sounds like she's doing a great job- presumably her child is napping so who is to say whether she's overstimulating her child.

I really think cafe owners can't complain, they probably make half of their income from overtired mothers who just want to strap their child in a highchair and enjoy a coffee while it is still warm. Clearing up is part of the job, and providing you've made some effort to consolidate he mess onto the tray, I don't think you're being unreasonable, and I would t ask for a dustpan and brush after having payed £10 for a coffee, a cake and a fruit shoot-isn't part of the point of eating out that you don't have to clean up.

If staff want to give mum's horrible looks because their toddlers have dared to spill a few crumbs then I would suggest they career change from a job which involves clearing tables... that or don't have high chairs in your cafe.

Agree though op you shouldn't be letting lo run around with hot drinks.

My son was the same at that age too, I ended up avoiding the eating out thing as was totally stressful, good luck it does get better with time xx