to wonder what planet the 'ban Trump from the UK' people are living on

[roseshippy]

Yes I understand that he's a sexist, racist, whatever-else-ist.

But he evidently thinks fondly of the UK, we are currently in the process of saying 'fuck off' to mainland Europe, so we will be a small, friendless island in the North Sea in need of some help.

AIBU to think that we need to suffer a bit of schmoozing from dodgy foreign leaders as part of post-Brexit Britain? (Actually didn't we already schmooze dodgy foreign leaders long before Brexit?)

And in reality Trump is rather less dodgy than the average world leader, if we exclude the EU, as we have done

What are the other choices?

And by the way, although I was born in England I am not part of your "majority of Westerners". I suggest you educate yourself in terms of the deeply-held - what we would consider regressive - views and beliefs of most people from Mena. Also revisit what happened in Cologne 2016 and continues to happen.

What the hell are you going on about? I am talking about the general knowledge of Westerners (I was born and raised in London and have friends all over Europe, New Zealand etc) is that they don't know the difference between Arabs and Iranians. I am trying to educate so that people WILL understand, you are trying to propagate ignorance. Yes people in general believe the Middle East are backward nations and I am not denying that the Iranian governmen is backwards in a lot of it's policies but that does not mean the PEOPLE should be scolded and it does not mean that the are all terrorists.

The majority of Westerners don't know about the differences between Iran, Saudi or Iraq which was illustrated by my point that the most common search term is 'Are Iranians Arabs' on Google.

The way you continue to dump all these countries into the same box is disgraceful, they each have their own social, cultural and religious make-up.

And many of the perpetrators of the Cologne attack, it was alleged, appeared to be of North African or Arab descent.

Again, Arabs aren't Iranians are they so why are you linking to that?

Either you harbour deep held racist beliefs so you can't differentiate between these countries or you are deliberately trying to dehumanise complex societies of people.

I''m not going to waste anymore energy and time on this. I hope you can live with yourself spreading fear, hate and ignorance.

FlyMe - What on earth on YOU going on about? I will say this again - my sister-in-law is Iranian. You were the first one to speak of Iran, firstly to the number of Google searches (!!)

The way you continue to dump all these countries into the same box is disgraceful, they each have their own social, cultural and religious make-up

All Mena countries are linked by the tenets of the same faith, very similar outlook and all understand Standard Arabic though there are differences in pronunciation and accent between, say, Iraqi Arabic and the Arabic spoken in Qatar and other nations.

You are just highlighting your own ignorance.

Having an Iranian SIL doesn't make you any authority on anything. You'd think it might make your posts about people less offensive, but it doesn't.

Iranians are not Arabs, they are ethnologically completely distinct. They are Indo-European, not Semitic. They speak Farsi, which is a Satum Indo-European language, not a Semitic one. Understanding Arabic does not make one an Arabic, just as speaking English does not make me a Brit.

Whose ignorance is highlighted here? Yes, its yours.

make one an Arab

Yes, I know that Iranians are not Arab, Narky. I never said they were.

It was Fly who started to bang on about how many google searches have been made for "Iranian". What has that got to do with anything that I've said? Nothing.

Do neither of you read all the posts?

And many of the perpetrators of the Cologne attack, it was alleged, appeared to be of North African or Arab descent

Yes, that's right. What's your point?

Southall If your SIL is Iranian, is she a terrorist? Should she be detained in a detention centre because she was born in Iran??

All Mena countries are linked by the tenets of the same faith, very similar outlook and all understand Standard Arabic though there are differences in pronunciation and accent between, say, Iraqi Arabic and the Arabic spoken in Qatar and other nations.

In Muslim majority countries people who are secular are not registered, this means this term covers everyone regardless of whether they are an 16 year old boy who is an Athiest fighting against the regime and trying to access social media through his smartphone so he can be like any other ordinary kid or an actual religious fanatic.

See Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran
"This leaves the true representation of the religious split in Iran unknown as all non-religious, spiritual, atheist, agnostic and converts away from Islam are likely to be included within the government statistic of the 99% Muslim majority."

Not to mention there are 300,000 Christians and 80,0000 Jews and other minority religions.

These ARE complex societies of people and I'm only using Iran as an example, Syria and Iraq have their own history.

Also my best friend's father is Iranian, I asked him if he could conduct a conversation with someone in Arabic and he said it would be the equivalent of an Englishman trying to conduct a conversation in French when he knew none - i.e it would be extremely limited

You try to talk with authority slipping in where you've worked, that your SIL is Iranian, 'chatter on the street' is this or that and make people think you are speaking the truth. It is very dangerous and is why I am responding - most people don't know so they can be forgiven for their lack of knowledge but you are actively trying to promote fear and hate.

Fly - I never stated that Arabic is the language of Iran but it is not unknown there either. There are at least 5 languages spoken in Iran. French too, which is a hangover from previous times. My SiL speaks Farsi, English and a bit of Dari.

I am not trying to promote fear and hatred. My family is very international and that statement, if you knew me, would be laughed at. You have to have travelled widely in order to speak with authority and knowledge, which I have done with an international aid organisation.

actually you said that all MENA countries understand standard arabic. This is not true.Which you seem to be now agreeing with.

Standard Arabic is understood by a quite a few in Iran, though they cannot read or write it. Just as Ukrainians can understand Russian, and Poles understand some Russian but cannot read or write it because the alphabets are different.

Southall

So do you think the people that you have helped with international aid should be banned? If you know about the atrocities in these countries how can you justify a ban that predominantly affects innocent people?

Do you really think this ban is going to deter ISIS? A ban that is affecting countries where there have been no murders of US citizens by people coming from any of these countries but there have been 2369 murders caused by Saudi?

Can you not see that this ban is pre-dominantly affecting migrants that have come to study/work or migrants fleeing persecution from authoritarian governments?

And like Narky said you are now changing your tune on what language Iranians speak. My best friend's father could not conduct a conversation in Arabic without guessing what the words mean in the same way as I (being English) would guess what the words meant in French.

If you genuinely do not want to spread fear and hate, then don't present information about complex societies of people as facts so that the less well informed can feel Trump's ban and whatever else he has in-store for immigrants is justifiable.

You didn't say quite a few people, you said all.

So do you think the people that you have helped with international aid should be banned? If you know about the atrocities in these countries how can you justify a ban that predominantly affects innocent people?

Mine was a monitoring role within a team. Even a country as large as USA cannot absorb all immigrants who want to move there. There are not enough jobs or means of supporting oneself in USA where medicine is very expensive. The problem is that certain behaviours-attitude-beliefs unacceptable in N. America and Europe come with some of the people who are fortunate enough to get asylum. These are not 'cultured out' simply by being in the West, and rather are sometimes reinforced when the kids grow up. That is just one problem currently facing Europe as you know.

You didn't say quite a few people, you said all

What's your point? Farsi uses the Arabic alphabet, so Iranians of the faith read the holy book in Arabic in the same way that English speakers read Latin (mostly without understanding everything).

Whats my point? Obviously its that you keep making big pronouncements, backed up by your totally not at all made up long list of reasons why you know these things, and they are mostly rubbish.
Like that one.

And this pile of nonsense: Farsi uses the Arabic alphabet, so Iranians of the faith read the holy book in Arabic in the same way that English speakers read Latin (mostly without understanding everything)

Ok, so English uses the same alphabet as German and Italian and French, so English speakers are just the same as German etc speakers, and can read bibles in French and Italian. But they won't understand everything

You're ridiculous!

Even a country as large as USA cannot absorb all immigrants who want to move there. There are not enough jobs or means of supporting oneself in USA where medicine is very expensive.

Now we have got to the root of your feelings on this haven't we? You have layered your reasoning in arguments that appear valid but when unravelled actually don't have foundation like why Iran was picked and not Saudi. So since you cannot hide behind these fabrications anymore - the truth comes out and it is actually because you don't want immigrants entering the country, I think I remember your username on the EU referendum posts and you ultimately revealed your views on immigrants coming from the EU in the same way; so what this is really about is racism. You don't care about the intricacies of these countries cultures like whether Iranians speak Arabic or Farsi. Or whether they are running from persecution for speaking out against the government, whether they have been tortured for saying they want democracy and desperately seek a way out because these people aren't people to you. You have long ago dehumanised anyone that is not the same as you, in fact were you the poster who used to go on about what it meant to be 'pure' English without 'diluted' blood? Because your tone here sounds very familiar.

It's interesting the talk of countries and boarders, it is a western view point. Nomadic tribes and different people are how they see themselves. It was the western nations that drew up the straight lines and put boarders on the map.

If you ask a native of Oman, for example - have you been abroad/ to another country. They could answer no. Yet they will have travelled to Saudi and Dubai, but they don't consider these different countries.

Even a country as large as USA cannot absorb all immigrants who want to move there

Isn't it a good job that nobody ever expected them to then, isn't it ?

You have long ago dehumanised anyone that is not the same as you

I am Asian, so enough of the racist insults please.

If you ask a native of Oman, for example - have you been abroad/ to another country. They could answer no

You've been reading some downmarket Beano and picked up this myth. People in that part of the world are very proud of their countries and are fiercely territorial.

Eh no this is from living with Omanis

Ivy - I remember you from the EU Ref thread and the Calais one. You are part of the Open Borders movement who caused chaos in Calais and also incited desperate people to travel at night in the Med to Italy and Greece; some drowned.

That last one is not to Ivy, but to FLY. Sorry.

Phrases like this Even a country as large as USA cannot absorb all immigrants who want to move there are used when all other rationales have been exhausted. I'm not saying in all cases - people have genuine concerns about immigration and I understand that but we weren't talking about miliions of people from these 7 countries 'flooding' into the country, we were talking about people who had been extensively vetted already, some going to the US to be trained as doctors, surgeons.

Southall that last post of yours just shows how little you do know. Added to that you then write an insulting message about obtain information from a dirty source. Is that to try and put me down?