To think the trump Muslim ban is wrong BUT

[HannahSmithson45]

Many of the same countries ban entry for people from Israel or who have ever been to Israel.

The whole thing is propaganda IMHO. An excuse for all the lefties to be up in arms. They always need a cause.

Quite right, why on earth would "lefties" want to live quiet lives of simple pleasures? They just can't help being offended. Professionally, if you like.

^enhanced terrorism worked*

interrogation

I am not sure many people on here will support the aggressive stance towards Israel by some Arab countries

There is an issue with radicalisation with some followers of Islam this is happening in many countries not just Muslim countries, why its very complex there isn't one answer and will not be the same reason for all as well as being Muslim they are individuals and everyone should be treated as such

Strange Saudi isn't on the list (yet it is known huge amounts of money and influence within terrorists groups comes from Saudi), how could it be when so much money is exchanged between the two countries

"It was not created by Obama, roses. Either research or read the thread."

The list was created by Obama

www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html

See the text there: "the countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 USC 1187(a)(12)"

That list was created by Obama www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program

skater the reason immediate action not taken was seen as a betrayal was due to treaties drawn up to say we would act, at the time France also signed these treaties and had a powerful army which they did not deploy to help Poland. Being geographically closer I would see that as the bigger betrayal if we look at what happened through those particular glasses.

It was not just Germany who invaded Poland it was the Soviets as well who then took it over for 45 years and caused endless deprivation and suffering. Funny that no one mentions that though....

Trump was elected. He is carrying out his promises. A lot of people don't like it. But he certainly has got things moving. The world has been far too complacent for far too long about the threat from a lot of factors at large in these countries.

The whole thing is propaganda IMHO. An excuse for all the lefties to be up in arms. They always need a cause. Remind me never to vote Labour again.
That is a seriously hard of thinking statement.

"I tend to think it's their Country, so not really any of our business. "

Terrorism is an international business and we are a bit scuppered when our supposed allies act like complete fuckwits.

Yes rose. Further visa restrictions but not an outright ban.

I'm going to bold 18:48 post by Darmody, because the OP clearly doesn't understand the difference between a ban and not recognising a country outright, and having no economic or political relations of any kind with it:

it is not that Israelis are banned, but that the countries in question do not recognise the legitimacy of Israel as a nation, and therefore do not recognise Israeli passports...

Any kind of ban is ridiculous.

Now back to trump. His is epically ridiculous because he rushed it through.

As for those trying to pin it on Obama, you're falling for "alternative facts".

The argument that it is hypocritical to protest Trump being given a full state visit when other leaders of countries with appalling human rights have been given them (which is not good either) is to an extent false equivalency. Trump is representing America, supposedly the leader of the free world, and yet he is not upholding democratic principles. Surely it is better to protest now whilst the country is supposed to still be a beacon of democracy before it goes down the path of countries who have disregard for human rights.

The whole thing is propaganda IMHO. An excuse for all the lefties to be up in arms. They always need a cause. Remind me never to vote Labour again

I would like you to deconstruct and explain your statement. It makes no sense to me. Please enlighten me.

Thing is, most of the world is anti-Semitic, and Trump has some openly explicitly anti-Semites in his advisory group & informal cabinet Anti-semitism is so "normal" that it's just part of the white noise of racism

Yes! - look I think we can all agree there are LOTS of bad things in the world

I think we can also agree that most adults are capable of objecting/protesting/acting against more than one thing at a time - waving shiny things and shouting 'oi don't look at Trump look over here and this instead' isn't going to make Trump go away and it wont change things - stand up against the ban of Israelis and people from Muslim countries - you can do both

Also America is a nation of immigrants. If you've any idea of the history of the place, you'll know. So the irony is just incredible at Trump's actions.

This table might put it in perspective for you Vivienne

I agree. Total complacency. On gun control.

Then immigration ban from 7 countries that Trump doesn't have business interests in Not so.

Further visa restrictions but not an outright ban

But its not an outright ban, its three months surely?

Also agree with whoever mentioned Saudi - as far as I am aware they are no 1 in pumping out this crap all over the world...

Sleepyowl12 Yes, it's true. Most Arab/Beduin villages look very different from neighbouring Israeli villages. Schools are mostly segregated and lives are lived very separately. However, a lot of Beduins sere in the army. It's by no means ideal and I would never say so.

However, when the situation has been reversed in many Middle Eastern Arab majority states, treatment of minority Jewish communities has been much, much worse.

There is still lots of prejudice between different Jews too. There is a big divide between European (Ashkenazi) Jews and Middle Eastern (Sephardi) Jews. Historically, many (not all) European Jews came from a more educated background and Jews from Syria, Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and Iraq came from a less educated, more rural background. Culture, educational aspirations, music, differences in the way Judaism is followed can be quite different.

The world has been far too complacent for far too long about the threat from a lot of factors at large in these countries.

So apparently it's really important to protect the US from people who have lived there for years and people who have been extensively vetted, even though that means alienating allies in those countries.

Meanwhile it's apparently really important to make sure children have access to guns.

To back up what roseshippy says, this article explains where the list of countries comes from i.e previous legislation. Which is not to say that Trump isn't extending the restrictions, he clearly is, but people saying he has chosen the list because if his business interests are incorrect. The list is countries previously identified as of concern (but of course not including Saudi Arabia )

sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/obamas-administration-made-the-muslim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/

The public should be suspicious of Trump’s policies and the media should speak truth to power and demand answers from the administration. But the media should also be truthful with the public and instead of claiming Trump singled out seven countries, it should note that the US Congress and Obama’s Department of Homeland Security had singled out these countries. It should have told us about theTerrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 rather than pretend this list was invented in 2017.Trump’s executive order said “countries of concern,” it didn’t make a list. That list was already made, last year and years before.

I think we can also agree that most adults are capable of objecting/protesting/acting against more than one thing at a time

No.

If they were capable why were there no placards, none that I saw anyway - on the media about the Boko Haram girls?

200 hundred girls stolen from school how many ever rescued, escaped, why no placards mentioning - FGM, why no placards mentioning the rights of women under ISIS - In Saudi?

How can anyone have the verve to march on womans march and rail solely against Trump? When women are being treated as sub human in so many countries round the world and actually being brutalized?

Nah much easier to march against the awful disgraceful nasty comments some Leary cocky old git made. Much easier than marching agaisnt men and women who take a knife to small girls privates.

People wondering why it's being called a 'ban': that's what Trump is calling it.