Bed blocking in hospitals

[SummitLove]

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

sorry, posted too early there.

What i meant to add was the only time my nan was 'bed blocking' was through the hospitals refusal to release her back to her family and insistance she went into care. It took my dad and uncle 5 months to find her a place.

5 months that bed could and should have been used for someone else.

I have never come across a case of bed blocking that was because the person didn't have someone to cut the hedges or do the shopping.

As much as I'd like to take care of my older family members when needed, I work full time, have a young family and live 100miles away.

It isn't that simple.

I work in adult social care. The issue is funding and lack of respect/ decent training/ pay for carer workers.

How dare you call a person, old or otherwise a ' bed blocker" it is a term banded about by government to blame the patients, not their inhuman cuts. And I mean all governments, the I'm all right, Jack mentality of the goriest & labour are to blame

Pop over for a cup of tea, trim the hedges, check in ...

Sure, that's dead easy for all those families with two full time working adults, kids and homes of their own to look after, bills to pay, retirements to save more ... and living hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from their parents due to the economy/jobs.

I'll just pop in my car and drive 350 miles north today, shall I? Sure my own primary aged children can fend for themselves and my job tomorrow won't mind if I'm not back in time.

Chip This wasn't the case in this case at all.

"Entitled."

Gah!!!

Then I think we are talking about very different levels of care, OP. I doubt that people who are stuck in hospital because they need someone to do a bit of shopping once a week is a large problem.

It's something we are looking at in our local area, Frik. It has meant a bit of restructuring of how the hospitals and social care system work but it has had an effect on the budget.

I get what you mean about complex care though. It was almost impossible to find a place that could manage my gran's dementia and medical needs after a hospital admission. They could cope with one or the other but only one place could manage both and they were full.

Social care is on its arse and you're blaming family members.

YABU and your attitude is indicative, and part of, the problem.

Sorry OP, I know that sounds bloody harsh but it's how I feel. Family are not to blame nor are they the cause of the acute and potentially disastrous problems the NHS faces.

I'll leave you to carry on in cloud cuckoo land OP.

My friend's relative has been in hospital since start of December and is bed blocking whilst waiting for a CH place and funding to be sorted. The hospital did try and send her home but their daughter refused as it would most likely have killed her Father who is becoming very unwell from the stress of caring for her.

My Mother never went into hospital whilst still in the UK before she died abroad. We managed to keep her out but that was because she was in a NH. She was kept at home as long as possible but this part took a massive toll on my health from which I'm still recovering 3 years later and also impacted my children's lives very negatively for a number of years.

There was a housing scheme which was opened for hospitals to send their patients to help tackling bed blocking. The charity reported that hospitals did not take it up and they had empty beds for months from the time they opened. I saw this in the news right before Christmas but I can't find an article on it. It is very annoying when such services are provided and it's not being taken up.

My friend's MIL has mobility problems, two hip operations and walks with a Zimmer frame. She sold her house and bought a flat in a sheltered complex in the city where her DS lives. This means my friend and her DP can shop for her, fix things when required and clean for her while she talks to her GCs. Obviously her needs will be greater as she ages but she has made sensible decisions regarding her needs which mean that she's getting appropriate supportand the arrangement works for everyone involved.

But you can do things like pop over for a cup of tea, or pick up some fresh fruit and vegetables, or making sure that the heating was working and she was OK when it was very cold surely? In my OP I am not mentioning big-things, I am talking about the little things impacting bed blocking.

When? She's working 60+ hours a week and has a small child? Someone isn't kept in hospital when their needs are such that they just need someone to make them a cuppa.

If you met FIL he'd tell you his tale of woe about being abandoned by his adored children. He's charming, funny and seems entirely alone in his old age.
He'd leave out the bits that would explain why he's alone, why his children didn't want to look after him. Or indeed spend time with him.

We have an issue with FiL.

He separated from MiL when Dh was a teen. Was never interested in dh. When we lived locally we only saw one another on Boxing Day - and that stopped when DHs brother moved abroad. Because FiL said he couldn't see the point if BiL wasn't there. He has no interest in our family and never has had. Doesn't even know the names of his grandchildren. He couldn't care less.

And now he is getting old and forgetful. Dementia has been mentioned, but he is still considered competent. His partner is finding it hard to cope, and we get regular phone calls asking what we are going to do about it. She went into hospital recently, and just left a message for us saying that we needed to sort him out. I'm afraid we are not going to drop everything to rush to him (we live in another country). We spoke on the phone, he said he was fine. He doesn't want our help. If I'm honest, we are willing to do a minimum, but there is no way on earth we are going to care for him, organise shopping. No chance. I am afraid I am a bit "as you sow, so you shall reap" about it.

Conversely, we were preparing to have MiL move in with us when she became ill - although sadly she never recovered enough for this to happen.

Chip Leave, just leave if you are going to start throwing insults around.

I asked a question, and for other people to share their opinions, and I am getting responses - and some of them I am agreeing with. Please don't turn this into a shit slinging thread.

I actually have no issues with people highlighting issues with my thoughts as long as it's done politely (as so many people have done).

There are many causes to bed blocking and it doesn't always have to be a result of there needing to be complex care plan in place.

I see what you mean, Summit.
I can understand people not wanting (or unable) to do personal care for their relatives.
But they could be doing little things, like making sure the elderly person has basics such as bread, milk and tea and the heating is working.

Summit, I wonder if people are worried that if they offer a little help, such as the examples above, then they would be more willing to call in on elderly relatives, but as is often the case, you start off doing a few things and before you know it, you're roped into doing a LOT MORE.

On paper, a 'quick trip to the shop' is just that - something that only takes up half an hour of your day, at the most.
As any carer will know, In reality, that simple trip can take up your whole morning, especially if it coincides with rush hour or school times and the person also wants you to call in and pick up something from the chemist, etc.
Then you take it back and have to organize everything.
The 'little bit of help' snowballs very quickly into 'doing a lot for them'.
Then the person becomes too reliant.

Nothing's black and white.

My nan is 91< widowed since she was 60. My mum is her only daughter who's now 74. My 2 sisters live far away (one in Israel, another in the North of England) so can't help practically.

I don't drive so I can't take my nan to hopsital appointments, my mum does this despite not being in the best health now. I am also the single parent to a child (now teen) with aspergers and other health problems. I work 3 days a week. On one of my days off, my mum and I go and clean for my nan. I don't know how much longer my mum can keep doing this with her arthritis.

My nan has needed help from social services since last September when she hurt herself and had to give up work (she was playing the piano in a pub every week until the, had been doing so for the last 50 odd years). She has been on the list since then but hasn't even been seen by anyone.

She is lucky she has us, if she didn't I'd hate to think what would have happened to her. But it's not fair to say that bed blocking s because families don't take any responsibility for caring for their elderly relatives. It's totally out of order. People's situations are all different. People often have 2 or 3 jobs, some of them minimum wage. Some people are estranged from their families (for good reason). Some of us are already caring for someone with a disability, or have disabilites ourselves. And the strain it puts on relationships when you go from having a mother-daughter relationship to a patient-carer one is unbelievable.

Social care funding needs to be upped, drastically, to help everyone - the elderly that need it, and their families who can only do so much - and who aren't district nurses/nurses/occupational therapists and therefore wouldn't be able to care for their relatives the way they need it for that very reason.

Also bear in mind OP you only get a carers allowance if you're providing over 35 hours of care and the person you're caring for must also be claiming benefits for a disability. It's a meagre allowance anyway (£62 a week) and on top of that you could have other dependent family members including children, as well as holding down a job.

Most likely you wouldn't get an allowance caring for an elderly relative. Give the pressures many families face these days, how easy do you think it would be to take on an elderly person's full time care with little or no support?

If people rely on the state to help them it's because they need help. Not everyone is trying to fiddle the system or get a free ride you know. And it's never as simple as you're making it out to be.

Too right, Chipping.

People often can't afford to just give up work to care for an elderly parent. Most household these days required both of a couple to work and there are many more lone parent households. many couples are still paying a mortgage until well into their 50's and 60's or still have dependent kids. How can people in that situation give up their jobs to help care for elderly parents? Carers allowance would not replace an income. I have an elderly dad almost 80 who thankfully remains very independent. I am his only relative close by, my db lives hundreds of miles away and sees him twice a year and does not drive. I will be able and willing to care for him when the time comes ( unless his care needs are too great) as I have no mortgage, I work for employers who would be sympathetic and let me reduce my hours, and I know my lovely dh would help but this is not the case for everyone.

Your OP is simplistic and shows very little understanding of the real issues.
'Bed blockers' may well have loving families who are willing to provide care but that doesn't mean the patient can go home.
The care offered by the families may be great but totally inadequate for the needs of the relative.
With the best will in the world not many can provide high levels of care let alone any sort of medical support.
The house of the patient or the person willing to look after them may need significant adaptations. They don't happen overnight and they don't happen without a fight.

Some bedblocking is caused by the opposite of what you describe. Families desperate to have their elderly relative at home with them but professionals disagreeing about the level of care they will need and insisting on a care facility.
Those wrangles can go on for months.

Also FYI its not only elderly people who 'bed block'. Young people and even children are waiting in acute hospital beds because of infighting between people who have never met them or their families.
It IS about funding. To put it all down to uncaring families is misinformed.

Quencher a lot of patients would refuse to go to such a place because for many it's like having one foot in a care home. It's one of the reasons we used to struggle to discharge people to the step down beds the trust had. I'm not blaming the patients at all, they just want to go home but it was a significant enough problem that we had to introduce the idea of step down beds pretty much as soon as people were admitted so they got used to the idea.

Our society has changed a lot in recent years. Even just 20 years ago, things were very different.

• People are more likely to move away, sometimes very far away, for work. Immediate family staying geographically close and all living in the same street, town, or county (or even country), is no longer the norm. My parents are in the midlands, where I was raised, and where their parents raised them. I live on the south coast for work, and will soon be joining my brother in London. We couldn't just pop in several times a day to look after one of them if we needed to. They're a 3 hour drive away at the moment for me.

• Nowadays, many families need 2 incomes to support themselves. This means both adults need to be working, and there isn't a stay at home adult anymore to look after the children and / or elderly relatives all the time.

• House ownership amongst people of my age has dropped significantly, because we can't afford it. And the ones that people can afford tend to be small. This means it is extremely difficult or impossible to accommodate elderly relatives, especially ones who might possibly need significant adaptations to bathrooms / bedrooms.

It's not necessarily a case of not caring, although I don't doubt there are many who would quite frankly be glad to be rid of abusive parents, for instance, but logistically it just doesn't work for many.

Don't get me wrong I would LOVE to live where my parents do (beautiful part of the world, and I miss my DM terribly :( )but a) there's no jobs (believe me, I had to move back after losing my job and struggled for 3 years before I got out) and b) it's bloody expensive. And it does concern me that my brother and I are so far away. But what can we do? If we want to be able to afford to move back there one day then we need the jobs in London that pay well.