Bed blocking in hospitals

[SummitLove]

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

[HelenaDove]

@FennecFoxMummy



You had better get used to it because its about to get worse.


www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3481121-The-changes-to-Pension-Credit

[HelenaDove]

OP is long gone. Shes not interested unless its to blame families.

[moreslackthanslick]

My father 85 and relatively healthy bar diabetes broke his hip last June and was admitted to hospital obviously. Various complications meant he eventually died last month. Sadly dementia had kicked in too.

In November the process had started to discharge him to a home, we were all fully on board with this as a family as felt it would do him good. He ended up never leaving hospital.i visited 4-5 times a week as did other family members- the amount of people there with nobody there at any visiting time was shocking. Obviously I don't know the backgrounds but dad was in hospital a long time before his death and certainly not bed blocking as we were all on board with his discharge to a home.

[Themadnessthatismylife]

Sticking plasters themadnessthatismylife.com/2016/02/29/sticking-plasters/ There are a lot of problems that cause bed blocking. I discuss a few of the problems with the NHS in my blog

[HelenaDove]

www.braintreeandwithamtimes.co.uk/news/15088302.Homeless_daughter_told_she_was____shutting_her_eyes_to_the_obvious____by_council_officer_after_caring_for_her_dying_mother/

[HelenaDove]

A two year old blog but this is happening NOW.

And it will make things worse. Patient blaming is deflection.


speye.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/ids-to-cut-disability-benefits-to-children-and-pensioners/

[Lucy7400]

With hindsight, I would have taken Mil in if we had been given 24 hour nursing. Sadly that wasbt an option.

[Lucy7400]

In an ideal world we would all live in homes near to granny where we can help clip that hedge or do the shopping. Then once the health starts to go, we would move granny in to a ready made annexe ideally suited for her needs and with 24 hour nursing support to help.

Sadly most of us dont have these things which is why it doesnt happen. When faced with MILs declining health, we managed the 200 mile distance for a while with 6 weekly visits and weekly online shopping orders.

That didnt cut it once dementia left her confused, aggressive,incontinent and prone to falls. We lived in a 3 bed tiny house in the middle of London with 2 babies and both working full time . We looked at moving out to buy a house with an annexe but as MIL had no money we would have to rely on the state for nursing care. It amounted to 2 x 15 minutes visits per day. We couldnt afford to pay for extra care ourselves so talked about me giving up work to look after her. That would have broken us. To be honest I didnt want to be my MILS nurse trapped in my home as she couldnt be left.

Thats why people dont take their elders in. Inadequate housing and support and a way of life that makes it I mpossible.

[Tessliketrees]

ew ew ew "stay their". CRINGE.

[Tessliketrees]

I work in hospital discharge, I have literally never had a single case where a family refuse to support a discharge because they can't be arsed or tax or whatever other thing this supposed family said. Not once.

Of course I am sure it happens but I know for a fact that families not pulling their weight is not the reason for the vast majority of DToC in the hospital I work in. It wouldn't be in the top 20 reasons. Most families bend over backwards to explain why they can't do more, they feel incredibly guilty.

Also if the level of care somebody needs can fit around a full time job it generally wouldn't cause a delayed discharge anyway. The problems are peak time 4x care packages, 24 hour care, care packages with 2 carers, care packages with peg feeds and other more specialised care, discharges that require downstairs living provision, time sensitive care packages etc etc. This will vary from area to area, where I work we have a constant struggle with getting dementia care home placements but I know this isn't the case in our neighbouring boroughs (oh the joy of finding a patient who needs that care and whose family lives in one of those boroughs).

The major problem is, of course, money. The other, massive, problem is that care is a business, we have to pay agencies and care homes to not only provide care but make a profit. They are under absolutely no obligation to do a single fucking thing they don't want to (well we have contracts with them but they are worth fuck all as we have no choice). Care homes will come in and assess three people for one bed, they will pick the easiest one who is most likely to stay their (ie not die soon or get better and go home). Care agencies pay terrible wages (of course LA's pay them terribly too because they have no fucking money) staff turnover is high. We have contracts with these companies but they have us over a barrel, what are we going to do? Refuse to work with them? Things are bad enough already.

[WayfaringStranger]

I've worked with hundreds of older people. It is exceptionally rare that a family will actively refuse to get involved without good reason. In fact, with the exception of one or two very specific situations, I cannot think of any families who do absolutely nothing. Without fail, family members almost always provide some support, be it referrals to social services or doing a weekly shop. Seriously, so few families outright refuse. Even in cases of childhood abuse, children often continue to provide some level of support.

"The "families don't care" line is government rhetoric. It's better to blame the people than point the finger back at chronic underfunding of the NHS and social care.

[TinselTwins]

the family I was referring to didn't turn up to the hospital. This is why the elderly person had to be admitted, rather than discharged home from A&E that night. I phoned them, the hospital doctors phoned them, their mother phoned them.

If an older person never bothered to learn how to pronounce their adult child's partner's name properly, or never bothered to include them on Christmas cards..
If an older person expected to be waited on and served when visiting new grandbabies, rather than offering to help their 24hour postpartum daughter or daughter in law…
If an older person hoarded their money (as they are 100% entitled to do, their choice) when their aduld children were in crisis..
If an older person told their children to pay rent or move out at 16, limiting their then teenager's options re school/college..

… you get the message..

.. if there was not a fostering of a supportive family structure before an older person found themselves in need, then YABU (on their behalf) to expect that sort of relationship to suddenly start when they find themselves in hospital!

[helpimitchy]

Aren't people entitled to have their own lives though? Why should people be obligated to care for their parents? People have a right to be able to spend their time and efforts how they need to and on their children, partners, work etc. Care can stretch across decades now. People can end up caring for their parents longer than they cared for their children. It's an often depressing, thankless and exhausting task and you're constantly on call. You can never relax or even go on holiday.

I don't expect my dcs to care for me. I'll be making my own arrangements and insisting that they live their lives how they choose, not worrying about me all the time.

[Quartz2208]

Full time care though for some can literally mean full time care. Are you suggesting that families put their lives on hold to look after an elderly parent. My parents would not want me to do it and certainly would not want my children to do it.

Neither though should the elderly be abandoned and left alone but in most cases this involves the family working alongside private or NHS carers.

And as another poster said the care profession provides jobs for a lot of people.

The thing is you seem to assume that bed blocking is because of a family member rather than the needs to get a medical care package in place.

Workingtowards does the exact same for her mother and my parents and FIL do for theirs. But all three still need a high level of professional care alongside that to dress them, help bathe and toilet them etc. If family were to do that they would beed to be there all the time

[workingtowards]

summitlove You misunderstand. I wasn't referring to the specific families of your elderly neighbours, I was actually responding to your original question:

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

I think that you do need to be careful in reaching the conclusion that the family doesn't care when there are often much more complex reasons behind situations. I don't know anything about your neighbours so wouldn't venture an opinion on them(!)

[BunloafAndCrumpets]

I am confused about this. Me and my partner both work in healthcare. Should we give up skilled jobs that have cost the taxpayer £100000s to train us for to care for our parents, even if our parents would prefer us not to? Aren't we better as a society providing care in care homes and enabling women (because it is often women) to work where they choose?

[brasty]

Remember OP though the shockingly high numbers of adults who have been abused by parents, physically, sexually or emotionally. I have friends whose father raped them when they were kids. I totally understand if they do not want to provide care when their parent needs it.

[brasty]

So OP between you you are providing full time care? I understand now. That is good that there are a number of you who will muck in. I know when my parents need it, it will only be me who helps them. That is based on my siblings total disinterest when they have had temporary health issues. Unless I was retired, I can not afford to provide full time care on my own. So would support them, but if they need full time care, they would have to go into care.

[SummitLove]

Workingtowards I have spoken to this family - I do know them (actually quite well). It's not like I am sitting spying out the window and forming conclusions.

[workingtowards]

All the neighbours see is an old lady with dementia on her own who isn't coping and keeps knocking at their doors in tears. They don't know our struggles to help mum, or the abuse we get.

I just think you should be careful reaching the conclusion that the family doesn't care when there are often so many more complex reasons why things are as they are.

[SummitLove]

workingtowards I'm not judging you - you are helping your mother out.

You are doing exactly what I said people weren't doing.

[workingtowards]

I'd like to add my own voice to those who have got a relative who won't accept care.

The reality for me is that I have a mother with dementia who lives on her own over seventy miles away, wouldn't move nearer to us and becomes verbally abusive whenever anyone tries to help.

I have two children and a full time job. Because she won't move nearer, I do mum's shopping online and organise cleaners and carers locally to her to help.

My reward for this is almost daily calls of abuse. Mum doesn't want anyone coming into her house and 'invading her territory'. This is alternated with calls from her in a distraught state, saying that she can't cope or calls from neighbours saying that she has come round to theirs in a state.

I'm sure the neighbours judge us just like the OP, but the reality for us is that mum hates us for organising support, fights it as much as she is able, and we are too far away to help ourselves. It is complete emotional torture to be frank.

[SummitLove]

And agree that OP is not providing full time care if she is working full time

We have no outside help. We are providing full-time care.

By your logic a person who has two full-time carers who work twelve hour shifts isn't being provided full-time care because the carers each get twelve hours off...

[brasty]

I suspect as people work longer, and have children older,there will be less and less people able to care for elderly relatives. I am older and I know in my parents generation. most women if they worked were retired by 60. And then often took on caring duties. I have friends who have had their children in their 40s, and will have to continue working until at least 67, and probably older. Most people I know actually do provide some care to elderly parents, but not the full time care that some think we should do.

And agree that OP is not providing full time care if she is working full time. I have provided temporary full time care to a relative, but it meant I had to have unpaid leave as I had to be there virtually all the time. The longest I could get away was about an occasional hour. And I used that to do shopping. There was no way I could have worked, which is why the care was temporary. As I need to pay the bills.

[Notjustuser1458393875]

Spickle, you set out admirably how complicated the whole situation is. I hope your mother and you can find an arrangement that works better for everyone.

And Katie Hollie, elderly and disabled people used to live in abject poverty, in households where caring needs prevented people earning money. The fact that you have an issue with a system that offers those people and their families some dignity and support (although not bloody enough frankly) says a lot about you.