Bed blocking in hospitals

[SummitLove]

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

The fact that you work full-time and haven't taken advantage of your employer's career breaks for carers suggest that you don't do 'everything'. You didn't respond to my question about who cares for your relative while you work. And you didn't respond to my question about whether this relative lives with you.

And you still have time outside of your full-time job to care for three elderly neighbours as well as doing 'everything' for your relative.

It suggests to me that your 'everything' is really not someone else's 'everything'.

Someone else's everything is giving up work, having no social life, no time to attend to your own health needs, your own children and marriage. No way do they have time to take on the care needs of three elderly neighbours plus start sanctimonious threads on here about hedge trimming.

Kidnapped Have you read the thread? My employer introduced the family care in JANUARY. Last month. I haven't needed to use it, yet.

I don't "care" for my elderly neighbours - I help them out.

And I am not giving any further personal details out in this thread.

Yes.

I have read the thread. I do wonder if you have.

Can you explain the discrepancy between your posts?

SummitLove Sun 29-Jan-17 11:34:02
Dreaming "have you ever looked after an elderly parent and tried to work at the same time. I did and it was massively stressful." Currently doing it, and, yes it can be difficult at times.

and...

SummitLove Sun 29-Jan-17 13:45:12
CPtart Do you think this is something you could prepare elderly people for? Ie. my parents are still very young, but I can see them being stubborn when they are older - are there things that I could put into practice to help them prepare?

And before you state that you are caring for your partner's parent, have a think about why only you and your own cousin are providing care for this non-family member when your own OP is about how families should be providing care.

Blimey Kidnapped. Well spotted.

To be fair to Summit, I think she was just answering the first as shorthand for 'are you caring for someone' rather than specifically a parent. But as her own parents appear not to be helping to care for the unspecified (grandparent?) then it makes much of this thread ironic.

It does appear though that the sweeping generalisation that began this thread, of hospitals full of elderly people unable to leave because of uninterested familes refusing to make them tea has boiled down to a single incident of a family refusing to help their mother, for reasons the OP doesn't know.

This thread has though been interesting and thought provoking, As someone though who has been unable to care at home for a seriously ill relative, and been assured that 'everyone understands that it's not because you don't love her', the judgemental attitude of some of the HCP on here is depressing,

Notjustuser - Correct, a relative but not a parent. I read that thread as person not parent. My parents would provide care and have done in the past, in this circumstance it makes sense it's my cousin and I that do it.

for reasons the OP doesn't know. I do know the reasons - they simply did not want to and "it was someone else's responsibility as we've all paid our taxes". I was actually at A and E, and, it was the staff who commented that they do often see unnecessary admissions due to a lack of support from families.

Kidnapped It's not my partner's parent either, but keep going with jumping to the wrong conclusions.

But, Summit, you don't know why they feel like that, do you? And the rest of your OP just rests on A&E staff's comments about a lack of relatives willing to make tea and trim hedges?

Notjust, no, I don't the "why" which is partly why I started this thread. I didn't fully understand how this family (and the other family) could be so disengaged from their relatives. Obviously, there are a heap of examples and reasons why this may have occurred - I definitely hadn't thought of the situations where the elderly person wouldn't accept help from families for instance.

The tea and hedge trimming were more to do with a lack of support on a day to day basis, or even weekly basis, that could be preventative (loneliness, for instance). But, I do think if people aren't willing to do those types of things (not necessarily those specific things) when it can fit in with their schedule and they are able too (assuming there's no abuse situation etc), than they certainly aren't going to turn up on a Friday night to A and E and take a relative home for the night. That's my experience anyway. Maybe most people would step up suddenly if it was an A and E situation, but in this case, they didn't.

I hope this thread then has made it clear that the crisis is absolutely not down to lazy selfish people sitting with their feet up and deciding not to bother popping round to their mum to make a cup of tea.

Maybe they think their reasons are none of your business.

Just like you think that the reasons why your own parents don't help out with your relative aren't any of our business.

If you don't have an insight as to why this has happened within your own family, then you're probably not going to understand why it happens in other families. Just a thought.

Anyways, I don't want to derail the thread so I will bow out. It has been interesting to hear the different stories from people.

By the way, I think anyone who provides care for a relative deserves great credit. And keeping an eye out and helping out elderly neighbours is also a lovely thing to do.

You could apply this logic to other situations. For example the carer sytem. People get paid by social welfare to be a carer to their own child/partner etc. When I was growing up, you did that simply because they were your family, you didn't expect the taxpayer to fund it. Or if a girl had a baby back in the day, the father stood by her and supported the baby financially. Now we have social welfare. There is no accountability or responsibility anymore which partly explains why our welfare state/NHS etc have costs which have ballooned out of control.

Katie Hopkins, is that you, you tinker?

I have read the thread with interest.

I am 56 with two adult children still living at home with me (can't afford to move out). My mum is 87 and has lived in her home for over 50 years. 15 years ago my mum was active and was leading a full life (dad died over 20 years ago). 10 years ago, mum had a fall while out shopping. Since then she's had two hip replacements and her mobility has worsened. Over recent years she has been shuffling around at home with a zimmer frame which was ok until a week before Christmas when she fell over at home. Rushed to A&E by ambulance. She spent two weeks in hospital, refused step-down care (been in one before and hated it) and so was discharged once a care package had been agreed. Two carers 4 times a day. The reality is that the care package is not enough - they are there for only 15 minutes. Mum has to wear incontinence pads (she is not incontinent) because she cannot get to the toilet/commode by herself. Cannot get to the kitchen to make a cup of tea. The carers will only put a ready meal in the microwave and she rarely gets any fresh vegetables.

The carers are doing their best and I am also trying to help but it really isn't enough. I'm an only child so have got full responsibility for her well-being. I work full-time, my children work full-time. I cannot afford to stop working as I still have a mortgage for the next 11 years. I live around 30 minutes drive away. Mum could move in with us - we live in a chalet bungalow and our study downstairs could be made into a bedroom and there is also a bathroom downstairs. However, she is reluctant, even though it would be easier for us. She now has to pay for care in her own home until the money runs out. I visit three times a week, get her food shopping and do her washing. Working, looking after my own home and helping mum is taking a toll on me. I'm exhausted, my house is a mess and jobs around my home don't get done because any spare time I have is spent with her. I have lovely friends that I rarely see because I have no time.

Mum (and I) should have thought about the future a long time ago, but this had crept up on us slowly as she has been able to live independently but since Christmas she's having to admit that she no longer can, while still clinging on to her desire to stay in her own home, which is a bungalow so therefore suitable! She does now pay someone to do her garden and trim the hedges and she has set up a Lasting Power of Attorney. She doesn't drive and can't even walk to the end of the road so her bungalow which has met her needs for many years now no longer does.

According to a PP above, I should now be thinking about my own care needs for the future such as moving to a bungalow near to family and amenities. It is something I'm thinking of, but actually I don't have brothers and sisters and my children are still at home. My daughter is thinking about moving out, but moving north to a much cheaper area as she cannot afford even a studio apartment here. So my possible future carer (my daughter) will most likely move far away from me. I think my son will step up as he is more likely to stay in the area, however I cannot expect either of my children to have to care for me and I certainly wouldn't want them to do it reluctantly. At least I can live downstairs in my current home, though it's not particularly close to shops or the hospital. I do drive so it hasn't been a problem so far, but who knows how long I can continue to drive.

In summary, no-one knows what the future holds and what is round the corner. What living arrangements works now may not work in the future and before you know it, it is too late to make drastic changes before you need to. My mum is lucky that she does have a family who cares, but it still falls short of the amount of help she requires.

Or if a girl had a baby back in the day, the father stood by her and supported the baby financially.

In which fantasy world?

When my grandma was in hospital, we were willing to care for her. The hospital however would not discharge her unless they had a care plan (or something) from social services which took well over a week to come so for that time she was bed blocking. Family aren't always to blame. The problem is far greater.

Spickle, you set out admirably how complicated the whole situation is. I hope your mother and you can find an arrangement that works better for everyone.

And Katie Hollie, elderly and disabled people used to live in abject poverty, in households where caring needs prevented people earning money. The fact that you have an issue with a system that offers those people and their families some dignity and support (although not bloody enough frankly) says a lot about you.

I suspect as people work longer, and have children older,there will be less and less people able to care for elderly relatives. I am older and I know in my parents generation. most women if they worked were retired by 60. And then often took on caring duties. I have friends who have had their children in their 40s, and will have to continue working until at least 67, and probably older. Most people I know actually do provide some care to elderly parents, but not the full time care that some think we should do.

And agree that OP is not providing full time care if she is working full time. I have provided temporary full time care to a relative, but it meant I had to have unpaid leave as I had to be there virtually all the time. The longest I could get away was about an occasional hour. And I used that to do shopping. There was no way I could have worked, which is why the care was temporary. As I need to pay the bills.

And agree that OP is not providing full time care if she is working full time

We have no outside help. We are providing full-time care.

By your logic a person who has two full-time carers who work twelve hour shifts isn't being provided full-time care because the carers each get twelve hours off...

I'd like to add my own voice to those who have got a relative who won't accept care.

The reality for me is that I have a mother with dementia who lives on her own over seventy miles away, wouldn't move nearer to us and becomes verbally abusive whenever anyone tries to help.

I have two children and a full time job. Because she won't move nearer, I do mum's shopping online and organise cleaners and carers locally to her to help.

My reward for this is almost daily calls of abuse. Mum doesn't want anyone coming into her house and 'invading her territory'. This is alternated with calls from her in a distraught state, saying that she can't cope or calls from neighbours saying that she has come round to theirs in a state.

I'm sure the neighbours judge us just like the OP, but the reality for us is that mum hates us for organising support, fights it as much as she is able, and we are too far away to help ourselves. It is complete emotional torture to be frank.

workingtowards I'm not judging you - you are helping your mother out.

You are doing exactly what I said people weren't doing.

All the neighbours see is an old lady with dementia on her own who isn't coping and keeps knocking at their doors in tears. They don't know our struggles to help mum, or the abuse we get.

I just think you should be careful reaching the conclusion that the family doesn't care when there are often so many more complex reasons why things are as they are.

Workingtowards I have spoken to this family - I do know them (actually quite well). It's not like I am sitting spying out the window and forming conclusions.

So OP between you you are providing full time care? I understand now. That is good that there are a number of you who will muck in. I know when my parents need it, it will only be me who helps them. That is based on my siblings total disinterest when they have had temporary health issues. Unless I was retired, I can not afford to provide full time care on my own. So would support them, but if they need full time care, they would have to go into care.

Remember OP though the shockingly high numbers of adults who have been abused by parents, physically, sexually or emotionally. I have friends whose father raped them when they were kids. I totally understand if they do not want to provide care when their parent needs it.

I am confused about this. Me and my partner both work in healthcare. Should we give up skilled jobs that have cost the taxpayer £100000s to train us for to care for our parents, even if our parents would prefer us not to? Aren't we better as a society providing care in care homes and enabling women (because it is often women) to work where they choose?