Bed blocking in hospitals

[SummitLove]

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

[CinderellaRockefeller]

Part (not all) of the issue with "bed blocking" is patient choice. So patient is medically fit to be discharged but because the NHS/social care can't put together a package of care to support them at home (including family support), patient refuses to consider the alternatives and sticks in the acute bed, which they don't need.

What I suspect you are going to see more of is the suspension of patient choice, and more patients being discharged to care homes until there is a package of home care ready, even if the care home or community bed isn't particulalrly near to where they live or where they want to be.

[ClusterFuckTadpole]

Well summit I'm sure you're sitting on your pedastal polishing your halo, but the issues are far more complicated than that!

[happypoobum]

Agree with PP - some of those elderly people, like my own mother, will have been abusive monsters.

Others will have adult children who have to work FT to keep a roof over their heads and cannot give up work to care for elderly relatives. They might still have dependent children and just not be in a position to sell their home, buy/rent a bigger one to accommodate a GP, then give up work to look after them.

Who do you think would pay for all that?

[SummitLove]

Cluster

Do one. There's no halo being polished here.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Some people don't want to live with family. Both my parents had their GP living with them when they were young, and it put a strain on all relationships. So much so that both of them have made my siblings and me promise that we won't have them with us should needs be.

[FormerlyFrikadela01]

Clairethewitch what about people who don't have the means to build a granny annexe?? I certainly couldn't afford, and am unlikely ever able to afford, major building work to house my parents in. We help out my in-laws with the garden and what not but regular daily care if/when they need it will not be possible because we both work full time.

[midcenturymodern]

Lots of people live far away from their relatives

Lots of people work full time just to survive and can't afford a 'work-life balance'

Lots of people don't have that sort of relationship with their families

Very elderly patients often have elderly children. My grandma died at 100 with 2 of her 3 children already dead and the other a 81 year old who lived 300 miles away in a nursing home.

[cushioncovers]

People are living much much longer.

They require really complex care.

If they still have capacity then they are able to turn down offers of help and care even if that means they suffer as a consequence.

Families are much more fractured and live further away than they used to.

Most family members wouldn't have any idea of how to care properly for an elderly relative. It is constant and unrelentingly tiring and frustrating.
Lots don't want to do it.

Many are still working paying a mortgage and trying to help their own kids get on in life.

Some have their own health problems.

And the NHS is massively under funded in so many ways as is all community services but that's a whole new thread on it's on.

[GimmeeMoore]

Firstly,I abhor phrase bed blocking. That's a person,who is medically fit but unable to be dc
This notion of apportioning blame misses the complexity of delayed discharges
Many mulltifactorial things are in play eg no onward safe place to dc to
Care package and support reqd for discharge but not currently available
Complexity of support needs require time to sort out a location,funding etc No family or help in close vicinity yo help out,so need to arrange a care package

[MadHattersWineParty]

claire do you really think that the majority of people today are in a position to 'build a granny annexe' because 'that's what families do'?

I'm 30, DP is 31, we can't afford to buy a one -bed flat, even though we both work full time, family not in a position to help us out with that (not that I'd expect it) we are dreaming out about whether we can afford to have children.

So I can't imagine being in a position to simply build a little flat for my Dad/his Dad to come and live in. How fortunate and privalaged you are that you were in a position to be able to do this.

We also live miles away from our families, because we moved were we could find jobs. If we do have children, they won't be able to 'pop' in and help us out, either.

[MadHattersWineParty]

Dreaming? Thinking!

[dreamingofsun]

have you ever looked after an elderly parent and tried to work at the same time. I did and it was massively stressful. I was chairing an audio conference with very senior customers and had to break off mid call to see what my mother wanted....in case she needed the toilet (though often it was to change channel on the TV). After a month she had to go into a home, it was either that or me give up work which would have had a massive detrimental effect on the families living standard and future opportunities. Whose life should come first, a parents or the rest of the family - husband and children? It is also like being held a prisoner in your own home. So please don't preach about people looking after elderly parents unless you have done it yourself

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

I don't think it has anything to do with entitlement.

In a society where one partner stayed at home (and lets face it that's usually the woman) it was 'easier' to care for an elderly or infirm relative round the clock.

But we don't live in that society any more. Many couples these days will both be working so providing that level of care will require one or other of them to give up their job which may mean struggling to pay the bills especially if money is already tight. Worse still if you are single and only have one source of income to lose.

And as a PP said, caring for a relative with dementia is bloody hard however much you care about them.

This insistence on trying to clutch at straws and find anybody else to blame rather than placing the blame on underfunding is going to lead to the system getting worse. We need to actually start looking at health and social care models that will work and holding the government to account for their part in this fucking mess.

[clairethewitch70]

Frikadela we needed to move anyway and made sure that the new house had space to build. We both work full time and the rent from DP's house pays for the loan for build costs.

I had a fantastic childhood, so I felt I owed it to my parents to support them when they need care. My DH feels the same too. I appreciate that not all childhood were perfect and I would not want to help my parents if they had been abusive to me.

My dad had several admissions to hospital during his final years. Each time they would not discharge him without a care package. We had to fight to get him out. He was in hospital for 6 months! He had carers coming here for washing and we did everything else and still we fought to get him out. I became distressing for everyone. They told us if we discharged him he would lose access to other services they were trying to line up such as SALT team.

[dreamingofsun]

and being woken during the night every night and having to hold down a difficult paid job. Or kids doing key exams that determine their future with broken sleep and a husband driving 100's of miles on less than 4 hours sleep.

[SummitLove]

Dreaming "have you ever looked after an elderly parent and tried to work at the same time. I did and it was massively stressful."

Currently doing it, and, yes it can be difficult at times.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

Summit have you ever been a full time, sole carer for a person who has advanced dementia - someone who wanders, turns on taps, smears faeces, is physically and verbally aggressive?

[Chippednailvarnishing]

Mmm, so do I go to work to pay my mortgage to house my children or do I look after my frail aging father who fucked off when I was three and still owes £50k in unpaid child maintenance?

It's a moral dilemma I've spent at least 3.5 seconds debating.

[BarbarianMum]

Yeah Claire because we all have the money for an annexe and enjoy the excitement of chasing after a demented relative who isn't immobile and keeps trying to go shopping at 2am in their nighhtie or sets light to the kitchen whilst your back is turned cooking chips .

[SummitLove]

We need to actually start looking at health and social care models

Should the models rely on some form of family involvement in the cases where there are family living close by and there has not been abuse? Ie. is it unreasonable to expect on the weekend family drop by with some shopping, or trim a hedge?

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

I'm a social worker and I can't tell you how many assessments I do where the children are also caring for their own grandchildren as well as their ill parents. I've done many assessments and reviews with the grandchildren present. Sandwich generation.

[sparechange]

Is there a mindset of the older generation to have a 'home for life'?

I have several friends with elderly parents who absolutely refuse to consider leaving the family house to be nearer their children.

Maybe we are just more used to moving for work, changing areas to get onto and up the housing ladder. Changing jobs rather than having one for life and moving for work as well.

One friend is having a time of it with her mum. She was widowed 3 years ago and is definitely not coping on her own but won't leave their big family home in Norfolk. It's miles from anywhere and hours from my friend, who has 2 young DCs

She has suggested, asked, begged that her mum downsizes and moved closer to her but she refuses

My grandmother was exactly the same and it made it very hard for us to look after her as well as we would have if she had moved closer and to a more practical house

[SummitLove]

Candy Yes I have.