Bed blocking in hospitals

[SummitLove]

AIBU to think that actually a lot of this situation is being caused by families taking no, or very little responsibility, in caring for their elderly relatives?

Are we, as a society, now in a situation where many of us our so entitled we just expect social services or the health services to provide everything? Seems to have been a huge shift from families being involved in care to families expecting others to provide care for elderly relatives.

Mooching over this thought today and would love to hear responses from both sides.

Have three elderly people near us (one couple and one single) that we help out as their families appear to have washed their hands of them. They rarely visit, don't organise simple things like online shopping, or come and help with trimming the hedges in the summer. Honestly, it's been so cold these past few days that I would have expected someone to have called or check in on them.

[MadHattersWineParty]

That's fair enough Claire but you must be aware that times have changed to the point were a lot of young adults are unable to get onto the property ladder themselves, let alone 'work their way up it' and be in s position to extend and house their relatives. To be in that position now, you are privalaged, no matter how you started out.

[GimmeeMoore]

Granny annexe,well my word that's a very affluent and out of reach option for majority

[redexpat]

They were told that the state would provide for them.

We are living longer. With more complex and overlapping needs because medicine has advanced. A lot of the people who need care today wouldnt have 50 years ago because they wouldnt have survived this long. So an increased number of people need increased care.

The cost of living has increased, so both adults generally need to work. There is very little time to help out, even less if you have children who also need care.

I agree with you in principle, but the reality many people live in today just doesnt allow for it.

[SummitLove]

Candy Not the feaces smearing though, only accidental on that part, not deliberate.

[redexpat]

sparechange makes a good point about pride and having a house for life. My mum lives alone in a 4 bed house and wont move, but then bitches about building of new houses.

[KitKat1985]

I work as a nurse with elderly patients (although currently on maternity leave). There are many reasons for bed blocking, Most common are:

1. An overly complex funding assessment process and shortage of social workers meaning finding applications can take weeks to go through.
   
2. Patients / relatives disputing having to pay for care (I.E from the future sale of parents' property) holding the whole process up.
   
3. Not enough nursing home places for an increasingly elderly population (especially for patients with complex needs) meaning that sometimes it's literally a case of waiting for a nursing home to have a death before a room becomes available.
   
4. A lot of elder people won't help themselves and refuse carers / assistance even though they can't cope without these.
   
5. Family living further away than what they would have done 50 years ago and being unable to therefore provide practical help. Also due to financial pressures many households can't afford to give up / cut down on work in order to help elderly relatives. And many don't have money / space to have an elderly relative live with them.
   
6. Family not feeling able to help even if they potentially could for entirely appropriate reasons (for example many sons wouldn't feel comfortable bathing / toileting their mothers for example).
   
7. Difficulties in family relationships.

[whatsthepointofmorgan]

I think that if possible people should be helping their elderly parents out a bit more and not foisting everything onto the state.

However, I know from experience that if a person is horrible when they were young, they will be horrible when they're older. If not more so.
We need to get rid of this myth that people morph into 'sweet told ladies' and 'lovely old men' as soon as they age.
Also, elderly people can be very demanding and exacting.
There has to be more give and take from both sides.

I organize shopping and do housework for two elderly relatives who both have medical conditions that affect their mobility and cause them pain.
The one tears a strip off me if I so much as get the wrong type of bread, or something doesn't quite meet her exact, bossy instructions.
The other is extremely grateful for any help I give her.

Guess which one I want to help more?
Guess which one gets more visitors in general?

I see both points of view.
There needs to be more give and take on both sides.
I'm not saying it's right, but I can see why some relatives want to stay away.

[SummitLove]

Thank you for all the input and personal experiences and other side of my thoughts everyone!

[expatinscotland]

'We built a granny annex at our home for my parents. My dad died after being there 3 years of a degenerative condition. My DM,DH and I shared his care. He was PEG fed, immobile. We did have carers in to wash him as it was too much. My DM 78y lives there alone now. We take her shopping etc.

DMIL is recently widowed. DH is there now repairing her porch light and power washing her slippery patio. She is 86. We are the nearest. His DB lives 100miles away (he told us he was moving far from both sets of parents so I wouldn't have to look after them in old age).

I thought this is what families do. I am disabled and on bad days my mum helps me.'

It's what families who can afford it do. Many can't afford to build granny annexes (hard to do with you rent a 1st floor flat, too), have to work long hours, have had to move far from family due to high housing costs+lack of employment opportunities.

[Heirhelp]

My Mum sometimes ends up in hospital and I often insist that the homes from hospital team assess her before discharge. I would love to care for but I work full time, 60 + hours a week and I can't lift her by myself. I am currently on maternity leave so have a small child who can't be left over night so I can't be there for my Mum over night. Just how do you suggest OP that I care for her?

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

is it unreasonable to expect on the weekend family drop by with some shopping, or trim a hedge?

I think we might be talking about totally different levels of care here. I don't think that's too unreasonable in many cases, but that's not really what we are talking about is it?

Even if you could get the family to do that, the patient would still be stuck in hospital if you can't get a 3-4x daily or 24hr care package in for the rest of the week.

[EddieStobbart]

My DM lives in a house that is too big for her which she is keen to sell but can't make decisions (general trait, not due to age) and won't accept help so she never will. Her knees are fucked but she refuses to go to the doctor ever even though she is now going down stairs backwards with a walking stick. I'm currently not working (redundancy) but am sorting things out to retrain to improve household income and try to ensure I have a reasonable pension and we are having a hideous experience with building work where our builder has taken most of the money but gone without finishing the job. One day it will be finished and the configuration might be one that would suit my elder mobility restricted DM (bedroom & shower room on ground floor) but no, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about a suggestion that it is given over to my DM who has refused to make responsible decisions for her own life then forces me to make big compromises for mine. She was also very difficult when I was growing up and I've had several periods of no or minimal contact.

My DM didn't look after her own parents and to be fair to her, I don't know if she would expect this but I think she isn't thinking about it and external agencies probably would.

[WeAllHaveWings]

My elderly widowed mum has many chronic health issues, we support her as much as possible with nightly visits shared between between her dc and weekends there is usually someone always there. We take time off work for doctors and hospital appointments. Do all her shopping, run her household make sure she gets the support available.

If she is admitted to hospital (which happens at least twice a year, can be 5-6 times in a bad year) we cannot provide her with 24/7 care when she comes out. We have children that need to get to school, we have work who are helpful with her many appointments or emergency care but only help so far, annual leave can be used but I already use at least a 1/3 of my annual leave to support my mum and also need it to cover school holidays. We all need to work.

When we speak to the hospital when they want to discharge her we have to say she will have no support 24/7 so they can make the appropriate decisions to ensure she is safe. We feel ashamed to say this, but what do you want us to do? Go on give us your magical solution.

[EddieStobbart]

Moving her would also be a problem, she's very overweight, not helped by her knees, and there is no way I could lift her alone.

[dreamingofsun]

if I don't have time or energy to do certain jobs myself (I pay someone else to do the housework and heavy garden work such as hedges) why should I be expected to drive 300 miles to do that for an elderly parent?

[whatsthepointofmorgan]

Both my parents had their GP living with them when they were young, and it put a strain on all relationships

Having a parent live with you can put a Huge strain on a marriage.
It's different if you're rich and can afford to build a granny flat. But that's not possible for most people.
What happens if your spouse doesn't get on with your mother? Why would you expect him to have to live with her? All squashed together under one roof?
It's unfair.

[SummitLove]

Even if you could get the family to do that, the patient would still be stuck in hospital if you can't get a 3-4x daily or 24hr care package in for the rest of the week

Not in the case that I was involved in. There is no 24 hr care package needed, or 3 -4 x daily visits. It was very limited amount of family member's time, a very short-term fix to avoid a hospital admission.

[FormerlyFrikadela01]

My experice was the same KitKat it's one of the reasons I left elderly care. Especially nursing home places for complex care. I worked in elderly mental health and know of only 2 homes within the surrounding areas that would take the most severe cases and these homes have very little kerb appeal so are often turned down at first. Such a hard situation.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

Maybe for some

For many they simply need people someone around at least once a day (district nurse) who are medically trained down to the cut backs in services they are not getting that they end up in a worse state of health heave to go in then there is no guarantee they will get the support needed when they come out so end up having a bed they don't really need and often end up feeling bad about it :(

The government will make claims about giving more money to the NHS for hospitals but its pointless when they have cut other services

[harderandharder2breathe]

My grandparents did downsize their 5 bedroom family house and move to a one bed flat close to family and within walking distance of local shops and bus stop into town, they are sensible.

If they hadn't, my grandmother would have been stuck caring her husband with Alzheimer's in a home where neither of them could get up stairs, an hour away in the car from nearest family.

Too many people do refuse to downsize and move closer to family. Maybe as they'd been moving around all their lives it was less objectionable to my grandparents than if they'd lived in the same house since they were newlyweds.

Often hear on here about people who's elderly relatives refuse to have carers coming in, putting huge strain on their family.

But the real reason for "bed blocking" is a health and social care system that hasn't adapted to people living longer and with more complex needs due to old age.

[SummitLove]

Heirhelp

But you can do things like pop over for a cup of tea, or pick up some fresh fruit and vegetables, or making sure that the heating was working and she was OK when it was very cold surely? In my OP I am not mentioning big-things, I am talking about the little things impacting bed blocking.

[CherrySkull]

Actually no i dont, because its known that unless they get dementia, most elderly people being loved and cared for by family stay in their own homes longer.

My grandmother was 90 when she finally had to go into a home after a spell in hospital due to a severe water infection.. the MH team decided it wasn't safe for her to return home

[Chippednailvarnishing]

OP you really don't understand bed blocking if you think a cup of tea and checking the heating is any way to help.
People can't leave hospital because they aren't able to independently feed, dress and toilet themselves. Not because they need cups of tea.