To think that just because you're off work sick doesn't mean you cannot leave the house

[user1485342611]

Someone has just been complaining that they spotted a colleague who is off work sick for the week out and about in their local shopping centre. Apparently if they're well enough to do that, they're well enough to be in work.

One of the reasons a doctor will certify you off work for a week is to give you time to rest and take it easy as you recover from an illness. That doesn't mean you can't leave the house. There's a big difference between getting up at 7am, facing a long commute and a full day at work, and not getting home until 6 or 7 pm; and going for a gentle browse around the local shops/meeting your mum for coffee or some such.

AIBU to wonder why people don't get this, and speak accusingly of anyone who dares to venture outside their front door when they're out of work on a medical cert?

To earn the biggest part of your income, you have to be present and do some actual work.

Ah, presenteeism. The enemy of productivity.

If I've invested in recruiting and training someone, I'd rather they followed medical advice and were supported in reintegrating back into the team - including if that includes a holiday - after mental ill health, rather than risking losing someone because of prejudice and inflexibility. Cheaper and better.

I think co-workers' attitudes depend on how much slack they have to pick up if someone is off. I've always worked in hospitality, and we would bitch and moan if people called in sick on a shit busy day and then were in the pub later.

I've never worked in a job with sick pay; if I didn't work I didn't get paid and whoever covered my shifts got the same money as me, or less, so it didn't cost the business anything. In food service, D & V automatically gets you put off for at least three days, so if it was a 24 hour bug, chances were you would be out and about while technically sick.

My boss years ago used to get really arsey about people being off sick. She took it as a personal insult. When I broke my ankle she actually said "I'd better not see you in town". I just laughed. There was no way I was sitting in the house for 6 bloody weeks! I'm not sure how going to the pub equalled a 12 hour shift wearing a cast, but there you go.

Is it actually true that you aren't legally allowed to work if you have a sick note? Years ago I had a minor surgical procedure and was signed off for a week, but I was fine after two days. My workplace wouldn't let me come back till my sick note ran out.

I was recovering from an operation and I was actively encouraged by my line manager to out when I felt up to it.
He took the view that it is no good being isolated at home and when you were recovering it was good to meet with friends or go for a gentle stroll as it helped one's 'wellness'
I think he was right.

you have to be present and do some actual work

Ah, presenteeism. The enemy of productivity.

Clearly if your income is mainly commission and bonus based, you are doing everything but presenteeism.

That said, I am all in favour of people working from home when the role allows it. Sadly, it's not very popular because of so many people confusing working from home and a duvet day. Just read all the threads about the subject on this forum.

I don't even like doing the school run if I'm off. So I don't really leave the house.

To be honest I've been off work once in the past 5 years whilst battling severe depression/anxiety/OCD and still went in when suffering spd where I could barely walk.

but I can honestly say if folk get signed off and then go to the pub etc I don't really give a shit. That's their decision, I know I come across high and mighty but a lot of people think folk that decide not to get signed off are judging them all the time and it's just not true

Mambono, you haven't answered my question how people are supposed to recover from longterm serious illnesses/operations/back trouble if doctor's advice is that they have to gradually start moving about?

Or who is supposed to pay for their upkeep if they all follow your advice and quit their jobs?

I've had 2 substantial periods of sickness in the last couple of years-3 months for a hysterectomy then 5 weeks after an athroscopy with some complicatons after. I considered going out even to the cinema so socially as part of my rehab-how was I to know how mobile I was if I didn't try these things?

A friend of my husband's took the piss though. He had an extended period off sick after a heart attack, went to Vegas and splashed the pics on FB.

corythatwas

I don't put people limping about after a serious operation in the same bag as the ones having a jolly in a pub, meeting friends for coffee or strolling all afternoon in a shopping centre, well enough to enjoy themselves, but a bit too anxious to go back to work just yet. I never said anyone should be at their desk or even on their laptop in the middle of a chemio treatment either.

Mambo

Why would you object to someone recovering from an illness meeting friends for coffee or taking an easy stroll around the shopping centre? You really haven't explained this.

But, mambo, strolling in a shopping centre might be exactly what you need after recovering from the operation or the chemo. And plenty of jobs are very strict about the physical condition they require before they allow you to return.

"a bit too anxious" sounds like you might be referring to MH issues. Can you actually look at someone who is drinking coffee in a café and see that they had to be whisked into hospital after a suicide attempt last week, or were found hallucinating from stress-related anxiety two nights ago? Because I can't.

I had a student once who used to come into class at a time when she was completely unable to do any work or even understand what was being said, simply because that was 2 hours a day when she could be sure of not killing herself. I didn't mind, I was happy to offer that safe space.

But it clearly wouldn't have done in a workplace- so can't you see why a coffee shop might actually be a lifeline for someone in that state? If she had felt she had to stay in the house, her flatmates might well have found her dead one morning.

At no time was I inclined to write her off as "a little bit anxious". And I was very, very proud when she recovered and went on to do well in her degree.

yabu , on the whole

Eternal health is a myth and people need to stop buying it.
We are a developed nation and can manage to assist people through inevitable periods of ill health.

You really haven't explained this

I have: because if you are well enough to have an active social life and go on holiday, you are well enough to work!

If you just have had heart surgery or chemio, you are not just signed off for a week. For long terms illness, it's important for the employers to know the actual reason, so they can put the appropriate measures in place. You have cancer, recovery take time, a contractor can be employed to cover your workload whilst you deal with your medical problems.
If you are just stressed or over-worked and tired, aren't we all, then feel free to find another job or take unpaid leave. It's not up to the rest of the business to support your leisurely life because you prefer gardening or meeting friends than turning up. It's ridiculous.

and we cant compare someone who has phones in sick to someone longer term sick leave, or surgery recovery

that said- if you are healthy enough to do a school run, surely you should be able to work staggered hours|?

mambo nobody gets signed off for being "a bit tired"

I was off for six months last year with depression and anxiety. Attitudes like yours were part of why I tried to go back too soon and ended up being off for several more months

I was mostly well enough to potter about locally and had several short trips during that time. I was exhausted from a two hour wander around a town I was visiting or from going to the supermarket. Mentally and physically drained, more so than I am from a full day at work when I'm well.

But I was absolutely not well enough for ten hour days, as full on happy jolly customer service person. And my manager made it very clear that I couldn't move sideways to a less stressful role, I had to do my original role or not at all.

My doctor and therapist and works occupational health person all told me to get out and about and do things I enjoyed and see my friends. Work knew about the trips as I'd actually planned them months ahead and booked annual leave so not even as if I was taking advantage of not being in work to go on a jolly.

Theres always one isn't there

You really have no idea about Mental Health do you Mambono or holistic care

Just because you can't 'see' it doesn't make it any less serious.

I am fortunate enough to have not suffered with any serious MH issues other than a bit of reactive depression, but I have seen how 'just stressed' can kill.

Prats saying things like that drove 2 of OH's friends to try to commit suicide, thankfully both found in time.

Mambo that's not what I asked. I asked what your problem was with someone having a coffee with friends or an easy stroll around the shopping centre?

mambono5 Thu 26-Jan-17 15:07:14

"I have: because if you are well enough to have an active social life and go on holiday, you are well enough
If you are just stressed or over-worked and tired, aren't we all, then feel free to find another job or take unpaid leave."

No, we are not all stressed to the point where we start hallucinating or are unable to get out of bed or try to hang ourselves. Some people are. Those people are just as ill as someone with pneumonia or cancer. Severe depression is a killer.

Let those of us who have never had to experience it take a few moments to be grateful.

I was off sick last week but I still had to take myself to the doctors, and then to the pharmacy in the town.

And then while i was in town I picked up some food for me otherwise I would have got quite hungry if I hadnt been allowed to get shopping in whilst being ill

user1485342611

Do you mean apart from me picking up their workload, meaning doubling mine and adding more tiredness/ stress and reducing time with my family? Apart from a company having to pay for someone who decided they can't be bothered to turn up and do their side of the contract? I assure you, most of us would gladly take a day or 2 off every week for a bit of me-time. We would probably feel a lot better about it. Unfortunately, in the real world of working class people, we have to work to pay the bills.

What do you think could possibly bother me with someone who can't be bothered to work but still expect to be paid for their leisurely days off?

What do you think could possibly bother me with someone who can't be bothered to work but still expect to be paid for their leisurely days off?

Do you honestly think this is what mental illness is?

I am shocked at how easily people take time off work, a week for a cold, a day off for a headache?
For the majority of illness if you are too sick to work you shouldn't be out shopping. If you are well enough to go to the shops for a few hours you can go to work for a few hours too.
Though I have no sympathy, I'm self employed so no sick days, I work with migraines, heavy head colds, I have BPV (vertigo) and have to work longs days in my feet no matter how dizzy I am. My DH has been working for 18 years and has never taken a sick day!

Where did anyone say that Mambo. You seem to be so intractable that you're deliberately putting words into people's mouths rather than admitting there might be situations that aren't strictly black and white.

There's really.no point in trying to discuss the issue with you, as your mind seems to be completely closed on it.

That's unfortunate for you Lima, but it's certainly not a good or healthy work set up.

that said- if you are healthy enough to do a school run, surely you should be able to work staggered

Ha ha ha!

So when I did the school run which is 4 minutes walk from my house after a bladder operations with complications I was well enough to resume my role as an outdoor instructor which meant, amongst things, carrying a decent sized rucksack and taking kids up mountains in the Lake District, mountain biking with up to 10 kids, archery and rock climbing!
I would have burst all my stitches.
Yeah, staggered hours would have worked!

It's thoughtless comments like that that causes problems for people on sick leave.