To think that just because you're off work sick doesn't mean you cannot leave the house

[user1485342611]

Someone has just been complaining that they spotted a colleague who is off work sick for the week out and about in their local shopping centre. Apparently if they're well enough to do that, they're well enough to be in work.

One of the reasons a doctor will certify you off work for a week is to give you time to rest and take it easy as you recover from an illness. That doesn't mean you can't leave the house. There's a big difference between getting up at 7am, facing a long commute and a full day at work, and not getting home until 6 or 7 pm; and going for a gentle browse around the local shops/meeting your mum for coffee or some such.

AIBU to wonder why people don't get this, and speak accusingly of anyone who dares to venture outside their front door when they're out of work on a medical cert?

YANBU people can be signed off with depression and anxiety and lots of other things that you may not be able to spot immediately and they still need to do their shopping! What if you live alone?? Of course you are going to need to go out! If someone has been signed off work by a doctor then people ought to wind their neck in if they see them out and about, you have no idea what is wrong with that person but obviously a doctor did which should be good enough for you.

mambono, you haven't bothered to answer a single of my posts concerning severe depression

do you honestly believe that the student I mentioned earlier just "couldn't be bothered" to do some work?

are you so completely unaware of what a debilitating disorder severe depression is?

I have never suffered from it myself, but I have seen it at close quarters- and it is remarkable how little time I spent envying the person suffering

I think it depends on what you are off with and what job you do. Generally, if it is an acute not serious illness you wouldn't expect someone to be off sick if they are able to shop. If it is a much more serious illness/operation and is long term you wouldn't expect someone to be in the house all the time.

I think it's a bit naive to not consider how it could be perceived if you are out shopping when off sick though.

I had a horrible chest infection a few years ago (exacerbated by living in a damp house!). I was stuck in bed for days, then even when I could get up couldn't get much further than the sofa. I made it to the GP and was signed off. Towards the end of the second week, I felt a bit better and was going stir crazy so managed to take my dog for a little walk... you might have thought I was ok, but for the fact that I was walking at about a third of my normal speed and had to stop and rest at every bench! But it was a beautiful day and the morale boost was totally worth the effort. No way was I fit to work though - I slept for an hour when I got back, I was so tired.

Being unfit to work does not necessarily mean being bed bound, is my point.

Lima1 Thu 26-Jan-17 15:40:54
"I am shocked at how easily people take time off work, a week for a cold, a day off for a headache?
For the majority of illness if you are too sick to work you shouldn't be out shopping."

So how do you eat if you don't happen to have a dh who can do the shopping?

As for working with a migraine, dd has tried that a couple of times. They tend to send her home when the up-chucking starts as, funnily enough, they don't feel it gives the right impression on the café customers.

Whathaveilost

fair enough, I work in an office so my desk role is way way easier than the school run. very true, sorry

I think LT sick leave it a very different fish to ST, and comment mainly relate to ST

example: a colleague has been off both weeks as sick. yet she is gallivanting the seem to have recovered by the weekend. that's not a good look

I have no idea how anyone could work effectively with a migraine.

mambono, your attitude to mental illness is appalling. Despicable actually.

Oh mambono. What a sad, silly little person you are.

Is it possible that what they describe as a migraine, the rest of us would simply call a bad headache, user?

Not the lights-flashing, uncontrolled vomiting, inability to stand upright, and aphasia that we might be thinking of. When dd has a bad attack she is unable to form any understandable words or remember what words mean, any speech she can bring out is very heavily slurred- I can't imagine what kind of impression that would make in a customer-facing job, even before she throws up at their feet.

SapphireStrange, Spudlet

I am sure you are one of these business owners who are generously offering full pay to your employers who need to take time off and putting the rest of us to shame. I am just wondering how you manage if your entire team is being off the same week? Do you employ temps and are able to cover the cost of full salaries + employee covers?
I would love to know how you manage in real life. Please feel free to put us to shame and explain how it works financially.

If you just have had heart surgery or chemio, you are not just signed off for a week. For long terms illness, it's important for the employers to know the actual reason, so they can put the appropriate measures in place. You have cancer, recovery take time, a contractor can be employed to cover your workload whilst you deal with your medical problems.

And actually, this paragraph betrays an oversimplistic and pathetically naive approach to managing long term illness and disability. I have a member of staff with a brain tumour. Managing her illness has not been 'sign off until better, hire a contractor', it has been a process of work a bit, time off for a bit for treatment, work part days and reduced duties where she can, and taking a really flexible approach so that she is supported and so that her long-term return to work is easier, as well as the fact that remaining in touch with the workplace is better for her mental health. I'm sure you're aware that mental health can suffer severely as the result of long-term physical illness.

mambono5 Thu 26-Jan-17 15:57:19
"No, I can't be bothered to discuss depression, and the need to go on holiday, have fun, enjoy yourself, basically living a totally normal life apart from the small details of turning up for work. It's a good thing some of us get on with it, and the all country doesn't stop because we are feeling a bit sorry for ourselves.

There's no way anyone will ever change their mind. Some people are just in the mindset of "me against them" (them being the employer? the rich? Who knows)."

If you'd bothered to read my posts, you would see that I have never actually suffered from severe depression. I could add that I have not taken more than a couple of days of work over the last 25 years and that was for purely physical disorders. So hardly a mindset of me against them at all.

From my pov, this is entirely about sympathy and understanding towards colleagues (and in my case, students) who may be less fortunate. It's about wanting to understand people, about wanting to help, about not wanting people to have to die. And about the minimal amount of education it takes to be aware that people do actually die from depression.

My employer was indeed very supportive when I suffered from depression - in fact their support allowed me to avoid being signed off.

In all my years in a number of industries and workplaces, I have never known an entire team to be off sick at the same time. So that is a straw man. Do try harder (but perhaps outside of work time?)

JassyRadlett

You are the one who sound completely unrealistic here. It's all very good to think about a flexible approach, and not overloading someone, but who is going to do the work? Her colleagues? In order to offer flexibility, you need to have enough staff in place. How can you support someone if you give them a full time work load? It's hardly supportive to expect them to do the same role in half the time, or to dump everything on someone else who has already more than enough to do. I much prefer employing someone else, even a contractor or a temp, to ease the pressure.

Spudlet ha, I thought so. Your position is to be an employee, not a business owner. Of course.

I've never known or heard of an entire team being off sick at the same time either.

I was off for six months once with RSI. My employers managed somehow to still get the work done AND not go bankrupt. Companies do have contingency/budget in place for things like sickness because, you know, staff are humans and as such will persist in not being totally well all the time.

You may make that assumption if you wish. Most people have been employees at one point or another.

Mambono, I still do not understand why you go on dividing illnesses into physical illnesses (worth taking seriously) and MH illnesses (can be dismissed as "can't be bothered to work"). Have you ever seen someone with severe depression close at hand? It is just as debilitating as a serious physical disorder. But part of the treatment is to get the patient as active as possible within the limits of what they can handle.

I can assure you that the young woman I mentioned earlier was in a considerably worse state than the relative of mine who was treated for bowel cancer last year. Yet she was able to walk about- it was pretty well all she could do. So why deny her that if it kept her safe and helped her to survive and eventually recover?

To me, that seems exactly the same as denying a patient the right to do physio because that might make them look as if they were ready to be back at work.

I am not making any assumption, you are the one who described your position as "having an employer". I am just reading your posts.

You are the one who sound completely unrealistic here.

No, it's what works in practice. Better for the bottom line to retain good staff you have invested in, and because they're treated decently they and their colleagues feel greater loyalty and staff retention overall improves.

There is much greater disruption to the business and impact on the workloads of others caused by increased recruitment churn and having to spend time investing in new starters due to treating people like shit and not taking a long term view.

Work gets reallocated, shared out, reprioritised. You adapt your project plans and horizons. You build a workforce with sufficient flexibility that no one is indispensible - the alternative is very poor business planning. It's a high pressure, very visible and high-risk area if we don't deliver, but it is entirely possible (and long term beneficial - in line with best practice for a reason) to deliver the work and behave decently to people rather than demanding they fuck off until they can guarantee they aren't going to need any more time off to manage their medical conditiom.

i got bollocked by work for being signed off sick, i only worked saturdays and i had a chest infection and pleurisy, i was REALLY poorly, could barely breathe.

I hadn't left the house all week, other than taking the kids to school and picking them up, but i have a disabled child who has dietary needs. friday came and i had a gp appt at 2pm, and no food in the house, couldn't get a delivery slot and no-one would go shopping for me.

i had to go shopping or DS wouldn't have had any food to eat, i spent 30 mins picking up his essential food, and a collegue happened to see me. It nearly killed me and i had a massive asthma attack, Dr signed me off for another 2 weeks.

My collegue told on me and work decided i was taking the piss and disciplined me. i handed them my resignation at the hearing and walked out.

That kind of attitude stinks.

And yes, sometimes we'll hire in a contratctor to pick up some of the work as part of planning and reprioritisation. But we'll do that while supporting the individual to do the work they can, whether their health issues are mental or physical. Because it's better overall for the bottom line.

Personally I wouldn't take time off sick unless I really wasn't well enough to leave the house. But I have an office job and know it's not the same for everyone. Stress / mental health related stuff especially.