To feel uncomortable with this - Mil having bath with DD 4

[BornFreeButinChains]

I cant think why any grown woman would want to get into the bath with a 4 year old

It doesn't matter that its MIl - if my own DM had done this I would be asking her - why.

I think there is a difference between being in the bath and DC coming along wondering what your doing etc. But as a granny if I needed to wash with young dc there its more likely I would forgo my wash until later or have a quick shower.

Maybe I am mad maybe its very common? They feed DC off their own forks in spite of being OTT about dirt and cleanliness - its like a religion for mil - but very happy to feed dc off fork shortly after illness..very smooshy with them kissing on lips - FIl is very very physical with them - lying down on grass in summer with DD on top of him after playing .

FOR THE RECORD if I felt anything else was going on of course I would stop them going but my family are just not this physical...DF would give bear hug at greeting and thats it. I really struggle with it - but keep telling myself its OK they are loving GP - but having a bath with DD?

why> why on earth would you want or need to do that?

It's up to you of course and you must do what you feel is right, but I personally can't see a problem.

If you don't want your MIL in the bath with DD, then obviously ask her not to do itThe rolling around and playing is lovely and completely natural though. I'm genuinely not attacking you - I promise - but it sounds as though you have problems with physical intimacy, even when it's completely innocent. Lovely cuddly relationships in the family and close friends are just that, not something a BF & GF would do, as you said earlier.

This all seems really unpleasant and creepy to me.

By sitting on FIL do you mean the child sitting on top of his genitles (while clothed) if so, I find that odd. If you mean on his tummy, thath is different to me. but you are the mum and it is quite worrying that even though you feel it is odd you feel you cannot do anything to stop it.

I do not think flirting is appropriate between family members, apart from (obviously) the mum and dad themselves and ideally not while the kids are around as they tend to find that embarrassing.

The bathing with grandma is really horrible.

The sharing eating utensils not very nice.

Kissing on the lips, not appropriate in my opinion. But what do you think?

The MIL and FIL are begging to have your children over and so you are the one who makes the rules, the stick to the rules or they don't see the kids without you, IMHO.

NeedaFanjob "Some grandparents raise their grandchildren. Some children have foster parents and adoptive parents."

Foster and adoptive parents would not ever be encouraged to bath with the kids in this country either, CrazyCavalierLady.

YANBU. It is strange and if it makes you uncomfortable you need to say so.

I cannot believe some people think this is normal. It is yucky.

Pendrive
"Can anyone put into words what is wrong with a grandmother being in the bath with her 4yr old gd? I'm genuinely curious."

It's unnecessary, it's not an efficiant way to clean anyone, so there needs to be a good reason to do it, I can see none.

It's confusing for children, they are told by parents and school about privacy but at grandmas house are expect to get undressed and into the bath with an adult they are related to. Maybe they could be asked, do you want to bath with lovely kind grandma? How are children meant to answer that one. They may feel uncomfortable but feel uncomfortable saying no.

The bath, which could be a nice relaxing or fun time for a child with an adult supervising, or putting toys in the water etc, becomes a squashed situatin where a child sits naked next to a naked adult.

Any dirt or grim from grandma is in the water with the child

To me the whole thing is really creepy and unpleasant. I know others do not find it so. But I do and I think the OP is not comfortable with it so she is now being compromised in not being able to say so. So in addition the grandma is exerting some control over her DIL which is not her place. PLUS some posters comments make it sound like the OP is being odd in her views and in wanting to set boundaries at all.

People who do not let others set their own boundaries are not people who should be listened to.

"Can anyone put into words what is wrong with a grandmother being in the bath with her 4yr old gd? I'm genuinely curious."

I suppose on a fairly basic level, if you're in charge of washing someone, why would you also need to be naked? Do you get your kit off when shampooing the dog? If elderly great aunt Agatha needed some help with personal care, would you strip off and tell her to budge up in the bath?

Personally I wouldn't be mad about the idea of my child sloshing around in a tepid broth of granny's pubes and corn plasters and fungal toenail flakes, either.

'People who do not let others set their own boundaries are not people who should be listened to.'
^this

I would hate this - at 4 years old?!

Yuck - I never saw my gran naked and my kids have never seen my parents naked.

YANBU.

I used to have baths with my nan at that age. We used to have this whole ongoing saga with lego men and rubber ducks and a swimming frog as the baddie. Nothing wrong with imo.

BipBippadotta your 'tepid broth' is very vivid! I thought about the temperature too. i like my baths hot, so hot you cannot tell if they are hot or cold! Yes, I know not very healthy! But a child's bath needs to be much cooler.

Our dad used to give us (me and my sis) baths,as kids. He made the flannel into a 'high diver' and we had such a laugh. He was not naked and did not need to get into the bath with us. My hubby makes son's baths fun too, but again he doesn't bath with ds (aged 6, and adopted). I think bathing can be great fun but doesn't require everyone to actually be in the bath together.

OP this is not just about bathing or kissing is it? It's about your PiL trying to muscle in and bring up your children in ways you are not comfortable with, and ignoring you when you ask them not to do certain things. I would not be happy with that situation, I think you need to take a bit more control (easy for me to say!)
For the record, the Bath, kissing and lying on top of FiL at age 4 all sound a bit icky to me, but difficult to come up with a reasonable sounding rationale for asking them to stop.

I would love to know what OP thinks about all this. I have just asked my son who has a 6month old daughter if he would be annoyed if I bathed with her when she was 4... He said " No, she'd probably love it " ( meaning the child not his girlfriend). I then asked him if he would bathe with her when she was 4. He said " I don't think I would want to flash my parts to a little girl if she was close to school age, but I would if I had a son. I think I would put on some underwear first"

I then asked him what he thought the girlfriend would think of me bathing with 4 year old daughter or her mother. He said " I don't know, she may feel more comfortable with her mother doing that but there shouldn't be a difference really"

I think sometimes on these threads it's because it's the MIL and not the persons own mother. I think it comes down to what someone thinks of the person who is doing it for some and a control issue for others. Family is family and if you dont trust your childs grandmother or grandfather the problems go deeper than the bath tub.

Basically he thinks very small children up to around 2-3 are fine

First line should read... I wonder what OP's husband thinks about all this

I'm a hugs and kisses Grandma and not too bothered about nudity but I wouldn't bath with any of my DGC. Why would you?
It seems a bit too intimate to me.
Are you able to limit contact as it doesn't sound like they'll change their behaviour?

children 2-3 are fine with no clothes but upwards and school age maybe wear underwear on bottom half....

llangennith

Limit contact with them for loving their grandchildren and bathing and playing outside with them???
Are you serious?

Have read the full thead but yabu to think your FIL having his 4 year old grandchild lay on him is weird. Is it creepy if a woman has a child lay/sit on them?

If you don't want your DD to bath with MIL then fine, but it isn't weird.

My mum would never bathe with her grandchildren and I find it really odd that any grandparent would, it's bizarre in fact and I understand why you're not comfortable with it.

I have young and adult nieces and nephews and I wouldn't get in the bath/shower with them, it's a strange thing to do and if I thought anyone was crossing the line with the children of my siblings I would speak up.

You need to speak up, you're the mother and it's your job to always do what you feel is in your children's best interests.

As for your father in law, hmm it's a tricky one. I have older brothers and they always played rough with my sisters and I as kids, pillow fights, gladiator obstacle courses, pulling us down the stairs on a duvet, wrestling on the ground, lots of really physical activity, so from that respect there's nothing wrong with your daughter and father in law playing in that manner.

I do find the lip kissing between your daughter and father in law too far though and it would make me really uneasy; It is obviously something that has unsettled you so you should address it. I know it might be awkward to bring the matter up but you have to think of your little girl's welfare first and foremost.

I would be putting a stop to baths with granny too, no one other than you should be seeing your daughter undressed.

I don't blame you feeling uncomfortable. I am a grand mother and would never consider this. Also avoid kissing on lips, maybe sharing food I do it occasionally, if they want a taste of something. But they have their own food on their plates, with own cutlery. Time for your DH to have a chat with them.

I think that there is something you are telling us OP

On the face of it YABU

No one other than you should see your dd undressed? Wtf? What about her Dad? That is an extreme view. I would say the vast majority of grandparents bathe their children.

Rough play is good for children.
Being comfortable naked is good for children (and adults)
Being loved by grandparents is good for children

I'll ask again. Do the children mind?

Everyone is very keen to assert 'their rights' over their children. Children are autonomous little human beings who have opinions, wishes and desires. If there are no child protection issues, then ask the children how they feel.

What right does an adult have to barge into a happy, close relationship because they don't like it? The whole thread is about the OP's feelings and yet everyone else DH, DCs, ILs seem happy.

If the children are uncomfortable stop it, if not leave it alone.

If there are no child protection issues, then ask the children how they feel

That seems overly simplistic but I'll ask my boys "bath time and bed or would you rather keep going with the Lego?" Children don't have the same rights as adults, morally, legally or otherwise. Lego was an extreme. Another extreme would be a child not realising being the victim of sexual touching was wrong.

We need to guide them so when older, children's opinions matter more. At 4, they should be guided as to what is generally acceptable or right or wrong or 'normal'.

^^badly written on a phone. Think it makes sense!

"but difficult to come up with a reasonable sounding rationale for asking them to stop"

Not difficult, easy, children come before adults here. The rights of the child come first. whether kids are happy or not it is blurring boundaries for the children.

Not one person here knows there are no ulterior motives here. But even if totally innocent why go against wishes of the mum unless you don't give a fuck for wishes of the mum! I would not want those. Grandparents around my kids unsupervised!