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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why domestic violence is seen as a womans issue and abused men are often ignored

420 replies

IHaveArrivedAtABadTime · 24/01/2017 17:19

Not trying to start an argument, am just curious that's all.

40% of domestic violence victims are men yet male victims seemed to be ignored a lot of the time.

Women have shelters and refuges but there seems to be little in place to help abused men. I've just googled help for male dv victims in my city and there's nothing Sad

AIBU to think there should be more help for male victims and we should be working on removing the stigma attached to being a male victim?

OP posts:
SansComic · 26/01/2017 12:31

Are you truly saying that women who are working hard to make the world better for women are sexist and should be working to help men instead?

user1484317265 · 26/01/2017 12:36

Is that a yes?

SansComic · 26/01/2017 12:40

No idea what's going on with premature posting here!

Are you truly saying that women who are working hard to make the world better for women are sexist and should be working to help men instead?

Not for a second. I'm not sure if this is willful twisting of my (and other's) posts or if it's become unclear.

No one has said this is women's responsibility or that provision should be at the expense of provisions for female victims of DV. Not a single one. If they have, please quote them.

What has become apparent throughout this thread is that female victims should be seen as a problem society should deal with and protect whereas male victims are either:

a. lying
b. no where near as prevalent as statistics suggest
c. responsible for their own care
d. liars who beat up women
e. men so who gives a fuck

Having read carefully, I can't see anyone suggesting women don't deserve what they have (and more). The whataboutery comes from WRA. The statistics re. men are questioned. The 'who cares' comments are from those against more provisions for men.

This thread is going nowhere.

My only hope is that the opponents of support for men are never on the opposite end of such horrible sexism, or, at the least, understand why their beliefs are so abhorrent to many.

MrsDustyBusty · 26/01/2017 12:42

As in, women don't care about male issues? I don't see how your comment could be taken any other way.

Well I care far more about women's issues than men's issues. I see nothing wrong with that.

brasty · 26/01/2017 12:44

I put women first.

user1484317265 · 26/01/2017 12:52

What has become apparent throughout this thread is that female victims should be seen as a problem society should deal with and protect whereas male victims are either

^a.lying/b. no where near as prevalent as statistics suggest/c. responsible for their own care/d. liars who beat up women/
e. men so who gives a fuck^

Ok. Sometimes they are lying. They aren't as prevalent as some of the stats quote here suggest. They ARE responsible for their own care in the sense that MEN need to step up and protect MEN just as we have stepped up to protect WOMEN. And not who gives a fuck, but they are men, so let other men give a fuck about them, I give a fuck about women.

2 men a week are NOT killed by their female partners. Men are not suffering DV equally to women. They are NOT.

If men need mens services, let other men set them up. Those of use putting in our time to womens services don't have any more time or compassion left over. We do difficult work and I don't make any apology for having no room left over for the people who in my experience, are the perpetrators of abuse, not the victims.

If you have a problem with that, I don't care. Why don't YOU put the effort in and volunteer, if you're so bothered. I do.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/01/2017 12:57

Does anyone on this thread actually oppose support for men? I can't see where anyone has said that. There are more female victims than men, and more women are killed. I don't want to see what government funding there is (if there is any?) diverted away from women's services. I don't want any of the voluntary organisations supporting women's services to fund men's services as well.

I would be totally happy and support extra govt funding being made available for men's services. I'd be totally happy for new charities to support men being set up. Maybe a "Race for Life" men only series of races or something like that. If it's something that's needed then the people that think it's needed should crack on and do what they think needs doing. No opposition from me at all.

It seems like you want acknowledgement from everyone on this thread that men's issues/services are more important than women's, and that somehow women don't deserve the help they've set up for themselves.

brasty · 26/01/2017 13:08

Funding has already been diverted from womens services, to support male DV victims.

user1484317265 · 26/01/2017 13:09

Does anyone on this thread actually oppose support for men?

Not one. The only thing we're saying is that if men want it, why aren't they creating it? The only sensible conclusion is that they don't want it or need it.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 26/01/2017 13:09

What has become apparent throughout this thread is that female victims should be seen as a problem society should deal with and protect whereas male victims are either:

a. lying - no men are more likely to be believed, they may not always be treated as serious victims but they will not be questioned in the same way as to why they allowed it to happen because men are not meant to fight back

b. no where near as prevalent as statistics suggest - because the number takes into account how many men will also try to prosecute their ife/partner who has been their victim, she has decided to fight back so he might to be injured that is not necessarily ignored and he can try to prosecute and it becomes harder to prove her injuries were down his violence when he too has been harmed

c. responsible for their own care - no there is support out there (agree not enough, as it isn't for women) and the law applies to both men and women when they are victims of violence

d. liars who beat up women - some are and too many are, many many attacks are not reported and a woman will often end up in hospital having walked into a door/fallen down the stairs a neighbour/friend/family/their children will report hearing/seeing her once again being beaten and it is highly unlikely that is the first time

e. men so who gives a fuck - not seen any evidence of that

Sadly there are men that hate women and have taken it upon themselves to blame women for the lack of support that male victims receive (which is woefully poor for both men and women) and they have taken over the narrative of male dv victims (which I also should point out the perpetrator is often their male partner) and you have fallen for that

If you really believe that if two men a week were being murdered by their wives/female partners and society would turn a blind eye then you really do have very little understanding of how our society (and practically every other society) has been historically structured and that is to put the needs of men first - if it happened men would have been provided with the support they needed long ago without having to ever fight for it

brasty · 26/01/2017 13:12

This article tells the truth about this issue.

kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/

"men are more – not less – likely to call the police
men are more likely – not less – to support a prosecution
men are less likely – not more – withdraw their support of charges.1"

brasty · 26/01/2017 13:15

And if you read some of the sites about women being violent towards male partners, they talk about emotional abuse and unrealistic expectations of men being the most common DV. Reading this it is clear that what they really mean is that female partners are expecting them to pull their weight, and getting angry (not physically) when they don't.

user1484317265 · 26/01/2017 13:15

That is an excellent article, thanks. Good quote here:

Denying women’s much greater suffering as victims of domestic and/or sexual violence is a political act. The differences between men and women’s use of violence and experiences of victimisation do not need to be denied or minimised for all victims to be deserving of safety and support. It is quite possible to believe that no woman, child, or man deserves to be a victim of sexual or domestic violence (or indeed of any other type of violence) whist maintaining a feminist agenda to end women’s oppression

DJBaggySmalls · 26/01/2017 13:20

SansComic
Once again you ignore the facts presented to you. People can read this thread, read the links given, and read your comments.

Womens Aid and Rape Crisis do more for male survivors of abuse than all the MRA's put together.
We cant afford to pay for all the services needed. Get over it and put your hand in your pocket like we have to.

MrsDustyBusty · 26/01/2017 13:24

Does anyone on this thread actually oppose support for men?

No. I oppose the idea that women can only support other women if they first look after men. I think violence against anyone is grave and unacceptable but that some forms of violence against women have a specific nature and intent which is related to the attitudes that underpin violence against, and discrimination against, women in all spheres and I think women are on our own in dealing with it.

SansComic · 26/01/2017 13:36

@brasty

I put women first.

Ummm. Hi-5? Congratulations?

I wonder what you'd say if your MP, GP, etc ever said this aloud. I can guess and I've no doubt you'd go mental at it.

@user1484317265

so let other men give a fuck about them, I give a fuck about women.

Yes. You've made that very clear. Have a gold star?

The only thing we're saying is that if men want it, why aren't they creating it?

Completely untrue. Statistics have been questioned. Personal stories have been questioned. Denial, victim blaming and misandry have run rife.

Where is your quote from (26/1/17 - 13:51:58). Any form of agenda is a bias to my mind. What do I know? PhD, MSc, MSc, MA etc

@AssassinatedBeauty

It seems like you want acknowledgement from everyone ... that somehow women don't deserve the help they've set up for themselves.

Show me a single post to support this. I'll take your silence as proof there is none.

BeyondCanSeeTheEmperorsBellend · 26/01/2017 13:38

Interesting fact i remember from charity fundraising...
When women donate, it is more likely to be to a women's charity
When men donate, it is more likely to be to an animal charity

Make of that what you will.

user1484317265 · 26/01/2017 13:38

Cards on the table, SansComic...are you a man? And what exactly are you looking for us to say here?

Answer a simple question: if mens services are so needed and so lacking, why aren't mens groups setting them up. That is what women did.

BertrandRussell · 26/01/2017 13:38

"Does anyone on this thread actually oppose support for men?"

Not me!

BeyondCanSeeTheEmperorsBellend · 26/01/2017 13:44

Oh another thing I remember that I haven't seen mentioned (apologies if it has been, I'm in the midst of an insomnia thing). I can't be arsed to find the source as it was a while ago that I read it.

Stats of men being victims of DV does not just include men who are victims of their partners (whether male or female). It also includes crimes against them by their partners family or former partners.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/01/2017 13:50

SansComic it was more of a question than a statement of fact. I'll take it as fact then that you don't want any changes to the current provision for women, largely or wholly funded by charity.

I'm still totally puzzled as to what you actually want from people.

Datun · 26/01/2017 13:52

sans

I'm really not at all sure what you are asking here? What is it that you would like to happen?

Women are justifying why they support women's groups. No one is saying men aren't deserving of the same. Most feminists centre women. It's the whole point. If it wasn't necessary for women to protect other women, they wouldn't do it.

SansComic · 26/01/2017 13:53

@user1484317265
Cards on the table, SansComic...are you a man?

Nope. A boring and predictable question (sexist?) but I' a female MRA. Also WRA and TRA... egalitarian, you could call it.

And what exactly are you looking for us to say here?

That male victims of DV are not adequately provisioned for and that more needs to be done. This is completely different to suggesting that women have too much / enough / not enough provision or that DV has more effect on one sex than the other.

I'm sure that that is all anyone has wanted.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/01/2017 13:55

"That male victims of DV are not adequately provisioned for and that more needs to be done. " There is no opposition to you doing so from people on this thread. What is the "more" that you'd like to see happen?

SansComic · 26/01/2017 13:57

I'm still totally puzzled as to what you actually want from people.

The same as the OP and numerous others, this was to discuss the under-provision of DV resources for men. It had nothing o do with women or female victims until the "what about the women" posters appeared.

This thread didn't seem to be about wanting things as opposed to acknowledgement and beginning a conversation about male victims although, as has been made clear, "we only care about women [on MN]".