To wonder when this became 'non binary'

[Cocklodger]

Or pansgender/grey gender/non binary etc?
I was chatting to a vague work colleague - works in a different site 50 miles away.
she believes she is non binary,
This is because she does not
Wear dresses, skirts, heels, makeup.
Prefers hoodies and jeans and trainers.
Enjoys riding a motorcycle and doing 'outdoorsy' things.
AIBU to wonder when this became any number of 101 labels and not just women doing things they're perfectly entitled to do in their lives?
I'm trying to do some research for a more in depth look at what nonbinary actually is...

I know that culture changes. I was using one example that everyone will recognise.
I think gender stereotypes are bollocks, and that we should all dress, act and do what we want so long as it isn't effecting other people.

I also think that gender and sex are two separate things and should not be confused.

If a person is repulsed by their biological sex, then that is one thing.

Being repulsed by your body would not automatically mean you would be more comfortable in a body approximating the other sex though would it? Genuine question.

I really don't know. Which is what is heart breaking about it, there are only two options for biological sex (for the vast majority).

But, deciding that your body is wrong because society expects you to dress that body a certain way is something different. Surely?

It just blows my mind that everyone thinks it's a fad. What about ancient Mesopotamian Great Mother priestesses, who were venerated MTF individuals, some of whom did have (admittedly very primitive) surgery?
What about in ancient Islamic society, where there were two types of transsexualism. One for 'fun', aka prostitution, one for 'real', who were considered to be genuine women in a man's body and often underwent castration to live as a woman in all senses?

Dual spirits? Eunuchs? Tiresias the prophet?

Or were those all 'fads' lasting hundreds of years, across continents?

Onlybpisitive i can think isvthat this is young people saying they've had enough of the stereotypes and limits put on the two sexes. It's a kick back and just how they are reflecting the that and vocalising it. Maybe it's a strange topsy turvy period that needs yo be gone through to break down this notion of gender and stereotypes. Maybe it will all come good.

Eunuchs are a really bad example of trans as the surgery was done without consent usually as they were slaves. It wasn't a choice for them most of the time, it was mutilation.

Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't.
Yes a lot of the time it was done to trafficked people which is a tragedy but for some it was done voluntarily, frequently for spiritual reasons (to serve a particular goddess for example)

Plus a man without a penis is not a bloody woman, they are a man without a penis.

Historically, they could be considered to be either, depending on where and when you were in the world

Castration was done on children. Therefore it would be classed as child abuse today.
Obviously gender dysphoria exists but using dodgy historical examples of genital mutilation won't help any trans cause.

Again, it sometimes was, but it wasn't always.
Even so. Strike that example, doesn't erase the rest of them. And there are so many more.

I think it might be to do with how intersex births are hidden now that you have to be one or the other, as corrective surgery has been done behind closed doors for a while? But that's just theorising

Imagine forms to fill out in the future.... Tick which box applies to you

Why can't we all be individual?

Because gender puts you in a box george.

We are. It's people who label themselves non binary who think everyone else is boring and pedestrian and they're too fabulous for that.

A sexist society, like a racist one needs to define those things. That was pointed out to me when I took gcse sociology in the 90's and it stuck with me.

Saying that I have been quite vexed by people delighting in introducing me as nonbinary to their friends. They assume because I don't fit (their) perception of female I am not? Really annoys me but then my context was girls school/ pushy parents/ financially comfortable with doors open to me etc.

Imagine forms to fill out in the future.... Tick which box applies to you

Yeah, we already have religion "jedi", race "cockerspaniel", or orientation "vegesexual"

I think it's as much a trend as goth, emo, punk, new romantic etc. A part of it is attention seeking but it's also about belonging to a 'group' even if that group is an 'out group'.

I think it's as much a trend as goth, emo, punk, new romantic etc. A part of it is attention seeking but it's also about belonging to a 'group' even if that group is an 'out group'.

I'd totally have been non-binary as a teenager if it had been a thing. It is a way of rejecting gender without having to claim you are the other sex isn't it?

But by doing that it also cements the stereotypes? I'm confusing myself.

Just a little thing around provision for trans people and women's safe spaces ..... I was interested to see a "people of any gender or expression" loo the other day, at the Fitzwilliam Gallery in Cambridge. I'm not sure but I think there may have been two as well, one at the entrance to the women's loos and one the men's (or there was just the one in the middle?)
Anyway I was quite impressed and thought seems like they're trying to be helpful to everyone?
Hadn't seen anything like that before.

The most straightforward way of rejecting gender is perhaps to identify as gender critical.

Can I just say regarding the whole gender vs sex debate that always rages on MN:

To a biologist sex=reproduction (exchange of DNA) and gender=male/female.

In the humanities sex=male/female and gender=masculine/feminine.

Neither is wrong, the terms are just used differently.

Anyway, apparently I am non binary. Who knew?

Gender is about as real and relevant as astrology.

tin hat firmly on, i will be interested to see if this gender neutral /non binary etc is still a thing in a years time, a lot of these things seem faddy, there has always been groups, labels and titles people give themselves.