How the heck do working mums manage this?!

[LosAngeles444]

Returned to work after maternity leave, DS 6 months old. DH works longer hours so I'm responsible for the nursery drop off and pick up. Morning, I drive DS to nursery, drive back home to park the car, walk 10 mins to train station to get into work. Have to leave work at 4pm to pick up DS from nursery.

Only just started this new routine and already knackered! How the heck do mums manage this? Aibu for thinking this is unsustainable and you just burn out at some point? I've only got one DS so know I can't really complain but it's already damn tough. How do you do it?

Well said :)

And also agree with Mindtrope, family dynamics are down to what works best for your family in an ideal world.

Good point Mindtrope in some jobs you simply can't rush out the door, and supporting your family financially is surely a positive form of parenting?

Sorry what a pointless statement that was! I mean in the context of not being limited by stereotypical gender roles, and an arrangement where both parents are happy and pulling their weight equally. Be that in terms of childcare or work.

But in the society we actually live in, where women are trained subtly and not so subtly from childhood to put others' needs first, it's funny how often it ends up being the man who has a job with a long commute, or long hours, or of a nature that means he can't leave for emergencies, isn't it?

Not so funny that almost none of these men think it's up to them, now they've become a father, to find a closer job, or reduce hours, or retrain into something more family friendly.

But surely when there are two working parents with children, at least one of them needs to have an element of flexibility - so you either decide which parent has a more family -friendly job, or you end up diluting two careers.

Family-friendly tends not to equate to high-earning, and sadly most households need money.

I agree slightlyglitterbrained a woman would be told such a job was incompatible with a family, but if it's a bloke then the woman is just expected to pick up the slack.

Mindtrope et al did you read the OP? This thread isn't about SAHPs (which is a perfectly workable and fair model) it is about women who work full time but are still expected to do everything else on top because their DH's job is too demanding boo hoo. It's an entirely different situation to yours!

Family-friendly tends not to equate to high-earning, and sadly most households need money.

But if 2 parents earn 40k you'll be a lot better off than if one earns 80k. Plus both careers will at least be maintained so you can earn more to save for retirement.

Once the children are at school that is, nursery fees would mean otherwise.

Just to add a little context to the nail-cutting exercise.

By now I have had a few sneering answers from Slarti which don't say anything about who cuts nails - so I suspect I'm right in guessing that it's not him (not that it matters if it is - or that I need to know - it was just a guess from my gut that I could probably pick that one thing as an example of something he never has to think about).

How many other things does he never trouble his pretty little head about?

The reason why I made that guess is that a man who walks into a bunch of women talking about parenting and goes "look at all I do!" is likely to be a person who is so involved in self congratulation on what he does that he has completely failed to notice how much there is to do that he doesn't do, ever.

Partners of men like this find it very hard because when they need - NEED - to talk about how exhausted or ill they are, or how they need some slack while an exceptional event at work is happening, or how much there actually is that the habitually do that the guy hasn't even noticed and why they can't cope, or just this: How much there is to do - they don't get to, effectively, because the guy goes back to his megaphone and his monologue about HOW MUCH I DO AND I AM A MAN.

What looks equal to a man usually isn't. The stuff about tweaking hours so they look balanced (and this point about focusing on "equality" is a red flat in itself) is a huge clue that Slarti is almost definitely cruising, compared to his wife - as most men do - and is oblivious to it.

I agree that being a good solid breadwinner is important, and many men who do this can't drop their WOH at the drop of a hat (many women too). That's not Slarti though. He's in the insidious crew of men who do a bit of work (wife still WOH) and a bit of parenting (the bits he knows about and notices) and goes on a forum to grandstand about it, without really knowing what he is talking about.

Glad to hear how many men do cut nails, btw,

Agreed anti-Grinch, if I am brutally honest my dh is a bit like this. I have done and continue to do my absolute utmost to challenge this, but my God it is exhausting. This morning is a case in point, dh wanted (in fact almost insisted) that instead of doing what I had planned (and needed doing) I go to the bank (where I am now) to sort some paperwork out for a mortgage thing (men's work). Before I left I insisted that there was a written record of everything that needed to be done.

It's true what you are saying slightlyglitterbrained about the men with the long commute and more important job.

When DH and I met we were equal earners in similar jobs, I took a step back when DS was born to accommodate child friendly hours and drop offs and pick ups.

I've been biding my time but taking advantage of any training and qualifications offered by my company so when DS moves to senior school in 1.5 years time I'd be in a great position to move to a more challenging and better paid role - perhaps even contracting like DH.

DH loves the thought of more money coming in but is less keen when I tell him that he'll need to rethink where he works - currently is an hours commute as well so only does drop offs/pick ups if I am physically not available to do it so once or twice a month. But that's my red line. No way am I going up to equal hours ( or more probably for me) if I'm still expected to do 90% of the wifework as well, so we shall see what happens.

Glitterbrain,yes there's societal pressures regard women roles.but it's not nonnegotiable
Why can't women expect their partner to alter behaviour when he become a dad
That what if conversation needs to happen.cant expect mum drop everything
If you don't have the what if conversation then you're unwittingly sending message he is more important because it's the mum who jumps for eventualities
Daily we discuss the what if who'll go pick up if the kids get sick,No assumption it's me
My job is important to me.dp job is important to him.he doesn't get to trump me on importance cause he's male
However if you live by belief that men jobs are more important,and they're not interruptible then you'll always be secondary to your dp

However if you live by belief that men jobs are more important,and they're not interruptible then you'll always be secondary to your dp

Good post but I think you have missed a final sentence which is and the male/female pay gap will never close meaning women will always be second class citizens

Yes I agree with you,basic brown
this notion that a man is uninterruptible in work.but mum drops everything is galling

You don't know me at all Anti, and in the absence of any knowledge you have invented things about me to justify your vitriol towards me. Nothing I've said here (or done irl) warrants calling me "insidious". Not sure what sort of kick you're getting out of this but you sound like a pretty hateful person in my book.

Slarti, the OP isn't about the morning routine. She is returning to work for the first time after Maternity leave (have you done that?). She is trying to do both ends of the day (again is this something you have experienced?) With a partner who " cannot" change or flexible their working hours (was that also your experience on your return to ft paid employment ?). Now this may be your lived experience, but I would be prepared to bet the number of mothers who have done this outnumber the fathers by 1000 to 1.

I'm a little confused by the criticism @Slarti has received on this thread. This seems to be based on his gender and a series of assumptions made about his life, which is a tad hypocritical. If he truly does share the burden of balancing childcare and work with his partner (and, at the moment, we don't know if this is the case) then his experience should be no less valid because he is a man. The divisiveness is very unhelpful.

My DH and I split everything equally; there is no gender divide in our relationship at all. I am on ML at the moment and we have carefully planned how we will do everything when I return to work FT to ensure that all childcare and career needs are met equally between us. We work completely as a team. I agree that this is unfortunately rare, but is becoming more common, I think.

I am a lawyer. My employer is hugely supportive of women seeking flexible working, but also of those who choose to return FT - I'm very lucky in this as I know that this isn't everyone's experience. I have faced no judgment from anyone either outside or inside work for my decision to return FT.

My DH, on the other hand, has received masses of judgment for considering looking for PT work so that he can take on a primary childcare role. A youngish male colleague of mine (a father) fairly openly suggested to me that my DH is somehow less dynamic / interesting or less of a man for choosing this route. My DH brushes it all off but this common attitude irritates me hugely.

Equally, at my workplace, men who do seek flexible working are much more harshly judged than women. They are thought to be less career focused than women who choose the same route. They are also less likely to be granted flexible working.

Society is not perfect. I do think it's important to appreciate that, even where the man does wish to take on a much more equal role, there are challenges faced on both sides.

OP, your situation sounds tough. I have nothing to add to the excellent advice you have received on here, but I hope you manage to find a solution.

basiccbrown- of course I read the OP. That's why I commented. I am suggesting that stepping back from the situation can be an option.

No one is disagreeing that that the workplace is a distastefully patriarchal set us which disfavours any parent who needs to also care for children.

It's because of those demands that it was evident to OH and I that sustaining two careers in such an environment was going to run our family ragged.
We both had careers which required a lot of travel, unplanned overtime, unexpected early starts.
Incompatible with family life.

So I gave up my career and took a leap of faith.

Like slide I am a lawyer (I work full time) and genuinely my children and I had equal roles - both worked full time. Plenty of couples manage that and I am not lying in saying it was fairly done. It was. Eg he took the children to the dentist for 17 years and I did both our tax returns . So and this is important I would never even have to think about dentists and booking and the like. Ditto on the shopping and at one stage washing (I could barely know how to use the machine). Plenty of equal couples share these things out. My children's father by the way found it hard to leave work early as his employer did not believe men might be the one who might have to get home first for childcare whereas female colleagues more easily could (and he was apparently denied a pay rise once because I earned too much!).

Anyway having small children is very hard indeed - mine are teenagers now and it's a walk in the park. It is vey hard whether you work or don't so people just have to make the best of it. I have been out of Europe for the week and where I am it is no easier for men or women with children than it is in the UK.

I would suggest to women to keep careers going for practical and safety reasons and also look at how you might work for yourself. I started that not once children came but after simply to make more money (and that worked..... always follow the money and you can rarely go wrong) and I encourage my children to pick careers where that is possible to as being your own boss give you a lot mroe power than you get as someone's employee in your 20s when you are quite junior.

I had 3 babies within 4 years (before the twins came later) and that was veyr hard but now they are grown up it is so nice they are close in age and have the support of each other so no matter how hard itmight feel to have baby number 2 when 1 is already an effort I think it' s best just to go for it and hope for the best as there is never a perfect time to have them.

No 'stepping back' isn't an option. It is something can be done if both people are happy with it like in your situation. It is not a solution to the situation of most women who work (many of whom do not want to be SAHPs). To suggest that it is frankly is ridiculous at best and accepting of our patriarchal society at worst.

'DH treats me like a housekeeper' never mind dear, just give up work then you'll have plenty of time to service his needs. What a load of utter 1950s shite.

You can't assume you know my life.

I wanted to stay at home with my kids.
I worked in a very male environment- the only female in a department of 120 men. It was dog eat dog.

No desire to grow testicles so I can compete in their ring.
The whole structure is flawed. Giving up work allowed me to explore other ways of having a productive life.

This isn't about you Mindtrope your domestic arrangements are your own business. If you are happy then that's all that matters. This thread is not about that situation, or you it is about a woman who works full time. Which is my point, your posts are not relevant.

basic- who made you thread police?

I am suggesting that having two parents working full time may not always be the answer.

Of course that's relevant.

No it isn't relevant, as that isn't the OP's situation. Thread police rofl do behave