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Males in female prisons

438 replies

WankingMonkey · 15/01/2017 17:25

I have noticed a fair bit of support for 'identification' over sex on MN. I am just wondering what peoples opinions are on males wanting into female prisons because they are 'trans'?

If possible, have a think, write out a reply...and [i]then[/i] read this

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/soham-child-killer-ian-huntley-9626220

As I have seen many defenses along the lines of 'noone would pretend to be a woman' and such. But here we have a clear example of this in action. And it is impossible to let 'some' do it and not others, isn't it. You can't make laws without clear boundaries of course.

I actually can't believe it has taken someone like Huntley to wake up a fair few of my friends, this is all over my facebook today with people suddenly u-turning on their previous stance...

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Megatherium · 15/01/2017 22:29

Frankly I don't believe a word of the report about Huntley.

WankingMonkey · 15/01/2017 22:33

We already know how many misogynistic hate-filled bigots are on MN, you don't need to keep proving it.

How the bloody hell is standing up for the rights of females misogynistic? You lost me.

Extraordinary this utter all-consuming obsession with a type of person you will probably never meet in your life.

I know two transwomen actually. Both post-op. 'Genuine' cases, dysphoric folk...who most people still think 'trans' means these days. Both are fairly lovely folk, don't cause a fuss unnecessarily, would never purposely make others feel uncomfortable...don't agree that lesbians should be shamed into sucking dicks, that sort of thing. Just because I know 2 who are just great does not mean I have to ignore rubbish like Huntley and other disgusting people using 'self identification' to their own selfish ends.

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CharlieSierra · 15/01/2017 22:35

But if it were true, should he be moved? Do you think violent, fully intact males should go to women's prisons if they 'identify' as women?

Niskayuna · 15/01/2017 22:37

If anything, having Huntley attempt to be the most prominent poster-boy for attempted infiltration of a women's prison will only highlight and publicise the issue, and quite likely force a reversal in this line of thinking. Yes, we need trans wings, yes, we need 'othering'. If they don't like it, they'll just have to not go to jail.

WankingMonkey · 15/01/2017 22:39

If anything, having Huntley attempt to be the most prominent poster-boy for attempted infiltration of a women's prison will only highlight and publicise the issue, and quite likely force a reversal in this line of thinking.

It definitely seems to have people talking about the issue. Had a few friends do a complete 360 on this matter after thinking about it properly.

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Mrsmadevans · 15/01/2017 22:41

Not read the link but I feel that transgender people are mentally ill and as such need psychiatric help and may need to serve their sentence in a psychiatric hospital where they will be safer and not at risk or a risk to others?

MorrisZapp · 15/01/2017 22:45

I haven't read the Huntley story. How credible is it?

Twogoats · 15/01/2017 22:46

I can see this debate lasting a few years before most people wake up...

What would happen if a male prisoner in a female prison got a female prisoner pregnant? It seems that this is where we are heading! Towards the immaculate conception!

todayitstarts · 15/01/2017 22:49

Diggory

"misogynistic hate-filled"

What do you think 'misogynistic' means?

roseshippy · 15/01/2017 22:50

The Huntley report might not be true, but then neither were the reports that got Tara Hudson moved to a woman's prison.

That BBC article said "Hudson has had reconstructive surgery but is still legally a man"

That was a fucking lie. No reconstructive surgery, just a fully functioning penis.

HMP recently reported on the sex offenders' prison (HMP Whatton). They said that there are 12 male-to-female transgenders in there, and they 'expect this to rise'.

The transgender prisoners were allowed to wear their own clothes (women don't have prison uniforms, men do), and got £25/week to spend on clothes & makeup (which the normal prisoners didn't get) .

The report said that trans prisoners said they felt safe there.

Since it seems that transsing is a popular route for sex offenders, and not so much for, say, burglars, it seems that it would be a good idea to build trans units in those prisons.

There are currently around 100 male prisons, of which Ashfield (Gloucs), Stafford, Usk (South Wales), Bure (Norfolk), Rye Hill (Rugby), Littlehey (Cambs), and Whatton (Notts) cater for sex offenders, and around 70 transgender prisoners, so it seems like they could be catered for within a small number of prisons for their own protection (I understand the complaint from trans prisoners is that they are subject to violence, however the same applies to sex offenders, so it seems that a specialist prison is the way to go). Clearly with 100+ prisons and only fewer than 100 transgender prisoners, it's difficult for transgender prisoners in general population.

Note that Huntley was attacked in his current prison by a man who murdered a paedophile in a different prison, and in 2011 a paedophile was also killed at the same prison - so perhaps he would be better in a sex offenders prison.

WankingMonkey · 15/01/2017 22:51

I haven't read the Huntley story. How credible is it?

No 'proof'. Word of a fellow inmate really, but fairly believable when thinking about it

Even if the Huntley story isn't true though...people like Huntley can soon hide behind stuff like this. Some vicious perverts already have been shifted to female prisons whilst actually intact males..And that is completely wrong.

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CharlieSierra · 15/01/2017 22:57

Even if the Huntley story isn't true though...people like Huntley can soon hide behind stuff like this

Yes, so come back all those who've said 'transphobe, oh not this again' etc.
and tell us if you think that's ok, and if so why. I'm really interested in your thoughts.

venusinscorpio · 15/01/2017 23:06

Get a dictionary and look up the word "misogyny", why don't you, Diggory. It has a rather specific meaning.

WankingMonkey · 15/01/2017 23:38

I am assuming the incorrect word was used and it was supposed to be misandrist...though I don't think that applies to me either it would make more sense given the complaint topic.

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WankingMonkey · 15/01/2017 23:40

Misandristic*

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GladAllOver · 15/01/2017 23:45

I'm quite happy for a male prisoner to be moved to a women's prison.
After he has had his male genitals removed and received hormone therapy.

roseshippy · 15/01/2017 23:53

There are a number of cases violent (for some reason some posters insist than transsexuals are all like Gandhi, and are passive meek females) males being sent to women's prisons.

Tara Hudson (numerous assaults), six foot tall, 7" penis, was one

Natalie Kearney, who committed numerous domestic violence offences is another: www.thesun.co.uk/news/1830459/trans-woman-with-all-her-male-bits-ordered-to-serve-her-jail-time-for-battering-lover-in-womens-prison-over-bullying-fears-at-mens-jail/

Natalie "was then put on a waiting list and told she must live as a woman for two years before she could be considered for full gender reassignment – to have her penis turned into a vagina.

venusinscorpio · 16/01/2017 00:02

I don't think so necessarily, Wanking. I think the poster thinks that transwomen are women so it's transmisogyny.

AnotherUsedName13 · 16/01/2017 00:07

Ummm....no formal request has been made and a ransom anonymous source told the Daily Star?

Before we worry about this, shall we talk about the scandal of how MI6 murdered Diana and how Lord Lucan is secretly living in Africa? It sounds like total tabloid junk.

toconclude · 16/01/2017 00:12

Please rename this thread "Transphobia on mumsnet"

WankingMonkey · 16/01/2017 00:12

I think the poster thinks that transwomen are women so it's transmisogyny.

Ahh right. I get it.

As a side note my autocorrect thinks transmisogyny is not a real word...

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WankingMonkey · 16/01/2017 00:13

Please rename this thread "Transphobia on mumsnet"

Transphobic to question if violent male psychopaths should be housed with females because of feelings?

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CherryChasingDotMuncher · 16/01/2017 00:26

Please rename this thread "Transphobia on mumsnet"

Whenever the trans thread pop up on MN about half a dozen posters fly in to tell us what disCUSting transphobes we all are...but they never explain why these threads are transphobic. Happy to shout and buzzwords at us though. Anyone care to explain why this thread is transphobic??

AnotherUsedName13 · 16/01/2017 00:42

CherryChasingDotMuncher - I used to try and explain. I rapidly realized I was wasting my time. If you really are so determined to turn a story that is clearly a total tabloid generated non-event into pearl clutching hysteria about evil trans women, nothing I say is going to change your mind.

It's up there with threads about how D&D encourage devil worship. Yeah, in theory a crazy person could do this, but in reality they haven't. So all this thread does is provide a showcase for people to express their prejudices.

If you really want to explore these issues, GLAAD has a fairly decent reading list here:

www.glaad.org/publications/series/transgender

roseshippy · 16/01/2017 00:43

It seems that men can choose which prison they go to in Scotland:

Alan Baker [note there are apparently two transgender murderers in prison known as/formerly known as this] is a 28-year-old murderer who has been transferred to the female wing of Greenock Prison, which otherwise holds:

"short term female convicted and untried female offenders"

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1689964/fury-as-transgender-killer-is-allowed-to-live-as-a-woman-on-female-only-prison-wing/

Katelyn Findlay, who is a violent sex offender now working as a prostitute (with fully functioning 7" surprise, natch) went to women's prison www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transsexual-vice-girl-says-new-6949786

Nicola Wilson, another violent transsexual, also went to women's prison in Scotland groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/transgender-news/epIUM8FlW7s

Paris Green is a murderer and transgender prisoner, who was sent to a Scottish women's prison in 2013, where he fucked women with his penis. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525441/Transgender-murderer-Paris-Green-moved-womens-prison-sex-inmates.html

Lisa Docherty aka William Wotherspoon has a string of charges and convictions including burning somebody to death, attacking someone with an axe, and abduction. He was held in women's prison - but later 'deconverted' back to being a man.

Andrew Burns who previously changed his name in prison to 'Mighty Almighty', subsequently changed to 'Tiffany Scott', and demanded strip searches from female officers (although he was in a male prison). www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-prison-officers-refuse-strip-7667184

In England, Lauren Jeska who attempted to murder Ralph Knibbs for conducting a UK Athletics investigation into Jeska's athletics titles won against actual women, was held at HMP Foston Hall - a woman's prison. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875 (although, disgracefully, most media reports don't mention the motive for the murder, nor the fact that Jeska is a transwoman). (Jeska is now subject to a hospital order.)

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