To not want to punish ds for this 'rudeness' when visiting relatives?

[woundedplacerias]

I took my dc, aged 9 & 7, to visit my parents and another elderly relative last weekend. It is a 3 hour drive away and we went straight to a pub where they were buying us lunch. Obviously, a pub meal straight after a long drive wasn't ideal, but logistics meant it was the least worst option.

Dc took books and small figures to the pub and were really very good. However, the eldest wasn't very talkative, perhaps to the point of coming across as a bit rude. He was always a very talkative child and loved talking to adults. However, as he has got older he has become a little more circumspect, and we don't really see these people often, especially the elderly relative as she doesn't travel anymore, so I think he felt a bit awkward.

He sat with his back a little to her, though I kept telling him t turn around, and didn't look at her, or the others, when talking. This made it harder for her to hear him, and a couple of times he spoke and she didn't hear, so he kind of gave up. He has a habit of not making eye contact when he's uncomfortable, and of course it exacerbates things as people don't then realise he is actually talking to them. Meanwhile, ds2 was right on form, holding forth on all manner of topics and generally being really chatty and engaging. It was like they had done a role reversal from how they were a couple of years ago, when ds1 used to talk non-stop and ds2 was incredibly shy. I feel like ds1 will have been very aware of this and comparing himself unfavourably to ds2, as there is a lot of competition between them at the moment and he is struggling a bit with accepting that ds2 is just as good as him at a lot of things. I am obviously working on that with him.

After lunch we went back to the elderly person's flat, where things carried on more or less the same. I allowed ds1 a bit of time on his tablet as no one was really talking much to him anyway. Elderly relative is absolutely lovely, but not really up to engaging a child who is being quite hard work anymore and my parents are not that great with children tbh. I feel like he needed one of them to go and sit next to him and get him talking about a topic he is really interested in, but no one did.

Now I have just spoken to my mum on the phone and she has gone on and on about what is 'wrong with' ds1, I shouldn't let him get away with being so rude etc etc. I feel like he felt uncomfortable, and wasn't being rude. No one made an effort with him in fact (I only blame my parents for this). AIBU?

I think as a parent you may need to be a bit inventive about ways in which he can demonstrate his non-rudeness to other people despite being shy and without the whole session having to turn into one whole uncomfortable telling-off.

Could he for instance be given practical ways of being helpful, like fetching and carrying for the elderly relative? Feeling useful is a great boost to confidence, and it seldom fails to give a good impression.

You know your ds wounded. I think you dealt with it fine.

Harsh responses. Agree with Badders it sounds like a day from hell and no way would I have done a 3 hour drive on a Saturday off with my kids to have a bloody meal. Crazy.

Meet half way or stop over.

What a bloody boring way to spend a Saturday. Your ds has all my sympathy op.

He was rude . No wonder there are so many rude ignorant teenagers if at 9 there DM was constantly saying "the adults should make an effort" No they should NOT.

As for the old people smell comment , ,DFOD

FFS, I wonder if by now the OP has got the message that her son was a bit rude. Talk about over egging the pudding

Don't worry about it OP. Your son, who is at a tricky age, had an off day. You have spoken to him about it, and am sure will see an improvement next time he's in that situation.

We live and LEARN.

Yabu you've taught him that manners (making others feel comfortable around you) don't apply to him. He was rude, you could have done what you wanted your parents to do- or directed him to tell them about something that you knew he would want to talk about. You're just abdicating responsibility for your own parenting to others and then complaining they didn't do it how you wanted them to.

Oh YANBU

Your son is a person and so he needs a bit of autonomy of his own mood or conversation. He's also still a child and deserves a bit of leeway and some attending to- why weren't they engaging him in conversation? Presumably they may not 'know' him too well personally but do know his interests - football, books, TV shows etc- what were you lot talking about?

TBH I'd be happy he didn't do anything bad and happy he was considerate and calm in an elderly relatives house - but my 10YO DS has ADHD and I'd be watching his mood like a hawk in that situation in case he started jumping and jiggling

Ok, his behaviour wasn't ideal, but I have a lot of sympathy for him. I recall being forced to sit quietly on a sofa (or often the floor) in the living room for hours (and fucking hours) whilst the adults chatted about Mrs thingy down the road who'd broken her foot, or the price of butter. And not even the promise of a drink or biscuit as they weren't allowed in the good room.

It really isn't fair to keep small children cooped up making polite conversation for hours. They're generally quite limited on polite conversation anyway beyond school related topics. And are no good on the price of butter.

I was just like your son, eye contact was out of the question, but even looking vaguely at the person speaking caused me physical pain.

Please talk to him and find out how he feels.

If he is like me please ignore all these posters and do not punish him.
Don't try and force him, my parent's tried this and led to serous issue's.

Unless you have experienced this you have no idea.

Oh and there is fuck all wrong with expecting adults to try engage children in conversation instead of the child being expected to suffer.

Er, yes. Because they are adults and therefore more experienced at socialising and could reasonably be expected to teach him the kind of behaviour that they wanted to see

But that's YOUR job...?

At that age, I probably would expect my dc to put themselves out and endure the occasional bloody boring Saturday for the sake of an elderly relative: after all, I did plenty of bloody boring things for them when they were that age and 9 is not too young to understand about reciprocity.

By that age, ds was already doing similar journeys to see his gran in her nursing room: that was certainly a smelly environment (being full of dementia patients) and sick bed visits are always hard work.

But on the other hand, I would think of ways to help him overcome his awkwardness, like giving him little jobs to do, and I would allow him to express his frustrations afterwards.

Children of the same age respond differently when out with adults, depending on what is going on around them and how comfortable they feel with the people and the situation.

Maybe he is trying to make sense of his life changing from his parent's divorce? Maybe he is feeling threatened and comparing himself unfavourably when he sees how capable his sibling is? Maybe he does not make sense of why he needs to respond with social niceties with relatives he doesn't see often? Does he have a strong connection with your parents? Was he unaware they kindly paid for the meal? Has he felt generally in a low mood of late and tends to avoid talking when feeling this way?
For whatever reason that only he knows and may open up about with some chatting, he is, as you say, going through a more circumspect, awkward phase this year than 12 months ago.

You have already had a chat and told him I imagine that his back turned and quiet behaviour gives impression he is rude. It is great you are working on his awareness of how he comes across. Could you just say you are working on him improving his social skills when he feels awkward and apologise on him giving the wrong impression?

Yet you allowed him to sit with his back to an elderly relative who was trying to engage him in conversation, without intervening.
How about you (as an adult) set him a far better example than allowing him to imagine this behaviour is even slightly ok??

Sigh, why can't people read? I didn't allow it and, while I don't mean this as a criticism of her at all, and know that it doesn't excuse turning his back, she wasn't trying to engage him and didn't hear his attempts to engage her.

Rachel why should children make the efforts and not adults?

FGS, there is a lot of ground between expecting the 9 year old to lead the conversation with a group of adults/maintain 100% concentration, and making excuses when he turns his back on people trying to speak to him

He was rude. It isn't unreasonable to point this out, correct it and make sure there are consequences. You can do this without expecting him to be perfect.

To be honest, he was rude. I'd have been embarrassed if I was his parent. Turning your back on people is just out of order. It's not up to the other adults to sort it, it's up to his parents and if they won't then no one else will bother.

I'd not bother inviting someone again if their child behaved like that. It's not like spending time with a sulker is especially good fun.

Of course adults should try and engage children if they want them to talk! What strange world are we in now that we expect the mother only to be the sole influence on her children!! Social ways are what children learn in a social situation, not at home alone with mum! Mum can guide, but all can encourage

It sounds like a miserable day for DS1.

How often does he see your parents and your elderly relative? Given they're not anywhere near his age bracket, unless they count as people he sees all the time (like you), I would totally accept that he had nothing to talk about with them. Not all people - this goes for children and adults - are naturally able to chat non-stop with everyone about anything. This is not a flaw. People are just built differently, hence introverts and extroverts.

It sounds as if he was uncomfortable and bored, rather than intentionally rude. I think the truth of the matter is that he isn't as close to your parents as they think he should be, and they've responded by attacking. I wouldn't punish him. As for criticising him for playing with a tablet? Well, you gave him the tablet, so how is that his fault? (If a fault has to be assigned.)

If your parents want DS1 to be more chatty, they need to spend more time with him on his own turf, e.g. by casually dropping round your place on a normal day and interacting with him at natural moments rather than creating a forced "best behaviour" type situation. It will take time. Naturally quieter children don't become outgoing overnight - they only open up to people they know, trust and like it takes time to foster such a relationship.

And I wouldn't punish afterwards. Maybe give some gentle but firm hints for next time, but not punish.

I mean my dc can natter for the UK, but they're probably not topics that would interest (or even necessarily be understandable) by a very elderly relative - unless they have a particular interest in minecraft or other computer games.

hunter people like you who who judge the behaviour of my child when I am struggling myself and don't invite us again, just make me realise what a nasty judgemental group of people there are around sometimes. A bit of help and understanding can go a long way

My eldest daughter is now 26. When she was younger (in fact, most of her growing up years) she was castigated by my In Laws for not being outgoing, sociable, chatty and a good mixer. My MIL once told me that she 'must be autistic'. She is NT, but just has the kind of personality that prefers her own company or that of very close friends.

Now she can cope with family gatherings but, in her own words this Christmas 'I love you all, but i can only stand you for so long'. Some NT children just don't like mixing and prefer peace, quiet and a regular timetimetable. I never forced her to mix when she was younger (partly to spite MIL and partly because she has 4 brothers and sisters, who were quite noisy enough). So I can see your DS's side in this! Sometimes it's better to leave them to their own devices - after all, it isn't their fault that relatives want to see them. DD1 actually once suggested that she be allowed a glass dome, so that people could see her but she didn't have to interact with them...

no wonder there are so many rude ignorant teensgers

You know this always annoys me as I think about my teens and older kids and they and without exception all their friends and wider circle are the exact opposite.

I know plenty of rude ignorant adults though and there's some nasty judge ones here to a shy 9 year old boy whose parents are divorcing ffs.

Oswin: Children need to be taught social skills, including how to engage people in a simple conversation. That doesn't excuse adults for rudeness but it makes sense to focus on the behaviour of the child more than the adults, because they are your responsibility as parents.

Wow, harsh crowd today OP!. It's AIBU - posters fall over themselves to be harsh.

I wouldn't tell him off. It doesn't sound like he was great but I don't think he sounds rude. I assume he was polite with please and thank yous etc. It sounds like he tried to talk to them but as they couldn't hear then stopped. That's not an unreasonable response.