To not want to punish ds for this 'rudeness' when visiting relatives?

[woundedplacerias]

I took my dc, aged 9 & 7, to visit my parents and another elderly relative last weekend. It is a 3 hour drive away and we went straight to a pub where they were buying us lunch. Obviously, a pub meal straight after a long drive wasn't ideal, but logistics meant it was the least worst option.

Dc took books and small figures to the pub and were really very good. However, the eldest wasn't very talkative, perhaps to the point of coming across as a bit rude. He was always a very talkative child and loved talking to adults. However, as he has got older he has become a little more circumspect, and we don't really see these people often, especially the elderly relative as she doesn't travel anymore, so I think he felt a bit awkward.

He sat with his back a little to her, though I kept telling him t turn around, and didn't look at her, or the others, when talking. This made it harder for her to hear him, and a couple of times he spoke and she didn't hear, so he kind of gave up. He has a habit of not making eye contact when he's uncomfortable, and of course it exacerbates things as people don't then realise he is actually talking to them. Meanwhile, ds2 was right on form, holding forth on all manner of topics and generally being really chatty and engaging. It was like they had done a role reversal from how they were a couple of years ago, when ds1 used to talk non-stop and ds2 was incredibly shy. I feel like ds1 will have been very aware of this and comparing himself unfavourably to ds2, as there is a lot of competition between them at the moment and he is struggling a bit with accepting that ds2 is just as good as him at a lot of things. I am obviously working on that with him.

After lunch we went back to the elderly person's flat, where things carried on more or less the same. I allowed ds1 a bit of time on his tablet as no one was really talking much to him anyway. Elderly relative is absolutely lovely, but not really up to engaging a child who is being quite hard work anymore and my parents are not that great with children tbh. I feel like he needed one of them to go and sit next to him and get him talking about a topic he is really interested in, but no one did.

Now I have just spoken to my mum on the phone and she has gone on and on about what is 'wrong with' ds1, I shouldn't let him get away with being so rude etc etc. I feel like he felt uncomfortable, and wasn't being rude. No one made an effort with him in fact (I only blame my parents for this). AIBU?

does he know elderly relative is deaf? did he think that she ignored him? hard to get past that at nine when he made the effort.

has he been taught to use a quiet voice when out and about so did not want to or think he was allowed to speak loudly?

and your parents did not speak to him about stuff so they were not interacting with him. he did his part following up your lead and then they did not do their part. what is he expected to do then? carry on talking about something when it appears he is boring them as they show no overt signs of being interested? if he is not getting anything back from them it is difficult to judge the situation as an adult never mind a child who is only half way to being an adult.

social skills develop over time. some take longer than others to get there. some need more overt instruction.

Have you found out why he would not look at them and why he turned his back repeatedly
I bet he didn't realise he was doing it.

Of course he may not have realised, but this is useful information about how to help him with future visits.

My ds1 finds eating out very stressful because of the noise and movement around him. He has cried through dinner on holidays at restaurants aged 11. He now takes stress relief toys in his pocket, they stay in his pocket. He has sensory problems. I wonder if your ds has similar problems.

CherryChasingDotMuncher: The elderly relative? The GPs? The parents?

Why are people suggesting the DC has some type of special needs, there is no suggestion that he has done anything other than act like a normal child.

I suggested it because I only know about sensory disorder because my friend has a ds with it. She was telling me about it and I thought it sounded like ds. I used to be a primary school teacher and had heard of many sn but not this one. I was trying to be helpful!

DS is 10 and I think it's a difficult age for them with adult interaction.

When he was younger he had a super relationship with my grandparents - my DM enjoyed playing board games with him and they would chat and do things together and he would watch cartoons with DF.

Now that he's older there is less common ground - my parents don't know much about football or pokemon and as they've got older they seem less interested in engaging others in conversation and more about talking about their health, or the health of random people we've never met, it's just natural that there is less interaction.

I can't imagine that DS would be particularly bright and breezy if forced to sit still for a meal and make polite conversation after a 3 hour drive.

It's a shame that your parents just want you to berate your DS1, rather than seeing the best in him or thinking that he could be going through a difficult time.

Trifle I genuinely don't understand what pleasure anyone would get out of a bored child sat on a sofa for hours occasionally partaking in a conversation they most likely find dull. I'd hate to have a bored child at my house who suffered because they believe it's the polite thing to do

Being someone's grandparent or relative doesn't give you an instant bond with a child. Adults have to put the effort in with a child, not expect it immediately and wholely from the child.

My MIL is local and sees DD regularly and is fantastic with kids, they have a great relationship. She also has toys in the house for when kids visit. My own mum is crap with kids, can't converse with them, and it would never occur to her to accommodate for them in her home. Guess which one DD feels more comfortable at. Not all adults are like this but my mum genuinely expects the grandkids to be fully engaged with her without putting any effort in, simply because she's 'nan'

He was being rude. Dd is 8, would definitely expect her to at least answer people's questions in a nice way. And the figurines and tablet for a kid that age at a family gathering is ridiculous. Did OP bring out the snacks and baby wipes too?

Did OP bring out the snacks and baby wipes too?
Ohahahaha arwnt you hilarious.

At least if he was an adult he could have gotten smashed to lighten the mundane dullness of an overlong day with a demanding Grandmother who expects to be entertained by her 9 year old grandchild.

No YANBU.
He was not rude.
Let him be.

What is this superiority about not having a toy at a pub table? Are parents really that smug that their children are bored shitless sit quielty for a bit longer than other children? You do all realise that's mostly pot luck that you have a patient child and not really a reflection of your superior parenting?

"Shouldn't let him get away with being so rude"
you are right. your parents are not very good with children.
Don't make it your problem.

You do all realise that's mostly pot luck that you have a patient child and not really a reflection of your superior parenting?

Ha ha Cherry - DS 1 would have sat nicely and chatted at that age. DS 2 would have been swinging from the chandeliers if the pub had any. And DS 3. wouldn't have said much to anyone. Maybe I've somehow managed to use different parenting styles with each!

stone that's exactly my point, parenting doesn't reflect how potent a child is

*patient (although potent is probably just as relevant )

I know Cherry - I'm agreeing with you!

Ah I see (sorry, baby brain kicking in!)

So true CherryChasing

I remember well the fun of trying to eat out with DS aged 4 who DH and I had to pin down at the table in restaurant to keep him in one place. Even with toys it was a nightmare. Sat opposite us were 2 adults with a child a similar age, who sat beautifully and quietly throughout the whole meal with minimal interaction from them. They shot us disgusted looks a couple of times as we tried to keep DS quiet and eat at the same time...the rest of the time, they clearly congratulated themselves on their superior parenting (as opposed to their good luck to have a quiet, placid child).

starry what a charming mother you do sound! Yes, thank you, so are my kids. But I believe the word you are looking for is "polite."

Question? Why do we feel the need to entertain children 24/7? Sometimes we have to do things and sometimes they are boring or adult centred. Why does that now seem to be an excuse for poor behaviour? Like we can't expect them to be well behaved unless they have their nose in a device or there is a play area nearby? I can just imagine my parents reaction if I couldn't sit through a meal at age 9 without something to occupy me. That isn't aimed at anyone in particular by the way, just an observation from reading these replies but we seem to treat primary age children as toddlers nowadays and have little to no expectations of them.

CherryChasingDotMuncher: The child shouldn't be making their boredom so obvious that it ruins everyone else's day. Adults may simply want to have their own conversation, and that is the pleasure they are getting from the visit. Or they may wish to see their grandchildren (shock).

What's interesting is when I was 9yo and visited elderly relatives we were expected to answer a few polite questions then sit down and shut up - be seen and not heard!
If we were leading the conversation and centre of attention we'd have been considered self centred and rude!

How times have changed!

I've only read the first three pages, and I'm surprised at some of the responses. I don't think your DS was rude, though I do think he's still learning how to manage the range of social situations in which he's going to find himself - which is fair enough at 9. I'm pretty sure when mine were that age they would have gone off with each other once they reached the flat to play/watch a video (pre iPads!) somewhere else, and entertained each other while the adults had some adult time - before rejoining for tea or something towards the end of the visit. Unless your relatives are really child-focussed it's a strain for everyone to have the children there throughout. I wouldn't have expected either side to provide witty and entertaining conversation for the other all through the visit, and after a 3-hour car journey and a pub lunch I think it's fair enough for children of this age to need a bit of downtime when they don't have to be on best behaviour.

I would have a chat with both DC about visits to relatives, explain how DS1's behaviour made the adults feel, and work out with them how they're going to handle future visits. If half an hour's downtime on an iPad (preferably in another room because it does look rude to be on a computer in company), or some other way of having a break, will help them manage the full day, then I don't see any harm.

The child shouldn't be making their boredom so obvious that it ruins everyone else's day

How does a 9yo make their boredom unobvious?! Should they be doing jazz hands the whole time? I can't hide when I'm bored and I'm an adult, because I have no poker face. What is the sense in putting children in dull situations then expecting them to pretend they're having fun? Doesn't that conflict with teaching them that they need to tell adults when they're unhappy/uncomfortable (which I expect most parents do)?

Like I said I believe it depends on the adult they're visiting - my DD would react v differently to granny who she's loves and engages with her and Aunty Betty who she met once at 8 weeks old, doesn't know and has nothing in common with/no bond wth. I can't expect my DD to have the same positive reaction and level of engagement in both instances.

Sounds like a miserable day for the kids but they have to understand has to be done. My mother winds my 9 yr old up like this she's v deaf & kind of talks at people doesn't listen or never seems to pick up what he saying so he finds it frustrating & boring in her company. I do have to tell him off quite a bit to be more polite & try to make an effort with her but it is hard. I see the same way with my nieces & nephews of same age. On the other hand my ILs are opposite really engage with the kids play chat with them about things they interested in so my kids are so different in their company & my mother notices this & will comment why are they not like that with her she doesn't get it. I think as they get older they'll connect better with her again I am hope. As babies n toddlers they all were mad about her!